mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 20, 2007 16:29:42 GMT
Another dose of signalling geekery I'm afraid. ;D I'm familiar with the Delta Track circuits, but what are Beta points? There are several in the Vic - letters and numbers for each beta are identical to adjacent track circuits. Walthamstow:Beta WK/WN (SB); Beta UB/UC (NB) - these are half-way through the scissors on the Mains. S.Sisters:Beta 468 E/TC - just before 17 points (depot - plat 5 SB); Beta 453 A/453 B just after the NB home (VL1). Finsbury Pk:Beta 441 B/NF NB, just before 3 points from the Picc. Highbury:Beta MC/MD. just before the SB - NB xover - I think this one was only in place August - Nov '68 and removed when the NB facing xover was removed: TCircuit MC 'grew' by 12' - the ones above were all shown as 10' long, this one was a 12' beta. Warren St:Beta FP/HG - halfway across xover Victoria:Same as W'stow half-way over the scissors ED/EJ SB and DN/DP NB. ED/EJ was removed with 17/18 xover on extension. These Beta points were shorter than the others - 9' DN/DP, 8' ED/EJ. T/Circuit DN has been absorbed into DM, so later it is DM/DP beta. There aren't any others further south. What are they - some form of "code isolation"? They're all between 8 and 12 feet long. Wot's their purpose then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2007 16:49:10 GMT
8 and 12 feet?
That sounds similar to a ten-ten (10'6") - perhaps these beta points serve a similar purpose.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 20, 2007 17:42:03 GMT
Must admit I wondered that - means of preventing 'code bleed'.
Great minds think in parallel gutters and so on.... ;D
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 22, 2007 22:01:54 GMT
Beta tracks are a bit odd - I can't get at my Vic Line Handbook right now but I'll dig the info out when I can. Basically they stop metallic debris from bridging out joints and causing mixed codes, but the circuitry also enables a faulty joint to be identifed.
The dimensions quoted were probably the original design dimensions which to a point are set in stone by the track design. They would change later when the P/Way actually put the track down, and for some strange reason blockjoints have got a tendency to relocate themselves...
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 23, 2007 10:05:14 GMT
Basically they stop metallic debris from bridging out joints and causing mixed codes, but the circuitry also enables a faulty joint to be identifed. Would I guess that there is some form of 'code following relay' - a CZR - in there; comparing the diagonally opposed feeds either side? Loss of code or wrong frequency causing a checking relay to cut in? <I'm really guessing here> and for some strange reason blockjoints have got a tendency to relocate themselves... Bwahahahaaaaa! ;D
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 24, 2007 19:02:15 GMT
I don't think it was a CZR - it would be named Beta WK/WN R or something similar IIRC.
What I do remember is that they are standard QN6 track relays.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 30, 2007 21:03:47 GMT
...And the dust settles after the Vic Line Handbook is pulled from the cupboard...
Beta tracks are used for Blockjoint detection. The relays used have twin coils and one coil is connected across the WK/Beta Joint and the other across the Beta/WN joint. The beta track has a DC supply, and the potential difference between the rail of the beta section and the adjacent track circuit rail causes the relay coils to energise.
If the blockjoint fails, one half of the Beta relay will drop out, which alarms on the IMR diagram. If the other joint fails, then other contacts of the Beta relay used in the code feeds to the Code Acceptance Unit drop out, causing a track failure. (Or at least I think so - I'm not quite sure about this bit yet.)
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 23, 2008 22:23:07 GMT
BUMP BUMP! Having spent most of the day reading the Vic Line Signalling Handbook (copy arrived in the post this morning, much to angelislingtons mild chagrin ), I see that in 1968 Beta tracks were used/described to actually detect block joints and the code present. Used where there wasn't enough room to ensure code separation - 11' 6" or less. What makes it such a clever bit of circuitry is that if one block joint fails the beta circuit prevents false code feed from the adjacent track across the failed joint, and if the other joint also fails then both adjacent tracks drop. <whisper> I'm quietly impressed. </whisper>
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2008 23:24:53 GMT
the vic line stuff aint the easiest
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 23, 2008 23:54:59 GMT
the vic line stuff aint the easiest So true..... Think I've got CSRs [1] more or less licked now - though it involved picking a random location and 4 sheets of A2 sketches..... So many overlaps. [1] Code Selection Relays.
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 24, 2008 9:34:04 GMT
the vic line stuff aint the easiest True but it gets easier if you ignore the Co-Incidence circuitry and one half of the double cut circuitry! Of course I got rather used to the miles of unending lines and duplication on the strip prints and bookwiring for Northfields to Heathrow which was wired to the same standard as the Vic. An absolute PITA when testing after routine changing QN6 relays in trackside kiosks.
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