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Post by aveyond06 on Aug 31, 2006 18:55:06 GMT
Hi, I'm asking around these questions, because I plan to come there very soon. 1/ Which is the busiest line(s)? (The Northern but between which stations) 2/ On which line(s) are very/too often occuring delaies? 3/ Which line(s) have the best trains? 4/ Which line(s) are mostly deep-underground? 5/ Which line(s) have a complex route? (E.g the District Line, etc.) These questions may help me planning my journey better  -Aveyond06 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2006 19:02:37 GMT
1. Busy sections for the Central Line are, in my opinion Bank - Liverpool Street
2. Most delayed line... Hmm tough one, I'd say the Dictrict through Earls Court or through Tower Hill/Aldgate
3. Northern. Undoubtedly
4. Northern is deepest just north of Hampstead, at 227ft as the line borrows under the heath
5. Northern is complex where the two city and west end branches join up at Camden Town and the layout around Earls Court/Gloucester Road/High St Ken is also a complex layout.
By the way, welcome to the forum...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2006 19:16:03 GMT
funny how the northern is at the extremes for the tube. The Northern is the most delayed surely, but the best trains (very arguably).
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Post by citysig on Aug 31, 2006 19:28:43 GMT
2. Most delayed line... Hmm tough one, I'd say the Dictrict through Earls Court or through Tower Hill/Aldgate Eh? I would tend to agree with the first one, but not the second. The most common delay to the District Line through the Aldgate area is normally as a result of waiting for it's own trains to clear the section ahead. This is then followed by the odd delay due to waiting for other line's trains. As there are more Districts trying to pass through the area than other trains, there are bound to be the odd few seconds here and there. The majority of answers are of course "set in stone" facts. But as for the most delayed and best stock questions, this can surely differ from person to person and day to day. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2006 19:31:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2006 19:54:08 GMT
1) Northern (Bank branch) is murder when I've been on there, at least between Euston and Bank. Northern below Kennington is cattle truck mode too. Victoria north of Victoria is pretty bad but not Northern (Bank) kind of bad. Central can also be packed, especially at the east end near the City. Circle is very busy, always. 2) Northern! Trains are often quite far apart 'cos the signalling's rubbish, and delays are common. Edit: Well I am surprised by central-simon's post. The Northern doesn't sound so bad after all! 3) Northern and Jubilee (in that order). The 95s and 96s are works of art. (I'm addicted to the IGBT sound!). If you like comfy, springy seats, the Met is for you however. Cs and Ds are fairly good too. C has lots of space to stand which is useful in the peaks. Piccadilly 73s are quite nice too when I've been on them. 4) The Vic is totally underground, Northern has much of itself underground. Jubilee has a fair amount underground (but the JLE is nice to travel in). Bakerloo is underground from Queens Park south. The Pic is mostly underground east of Barons Court. And the Central from White City - Stratford/Leyton. 5) Northern and District are complex. The Met is weird because it has 4 tracking with fast and semi-fast services to Watford and Amersham & Chesham. The Central around the Hainault loop is a bit funny too. When planning your journey, it's best to try different routes and see what you feel most comfortable with if it's a regular trip (i.e. commuting). Enjoy your time on the forum |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2006 20:01:02 GMT
funny how the northern is at the extremes for the tube. The Northern is the most delayed surely, but the best trains (very arguably). The Northern got new trains, so they say, because of its 'Misery line' tag and LU felt they needed to get new trains out there to appease the passengers (plus the 59s and 62s weren't far from retirement anyway I guess and were still guard-worked). The signalling and track still leaves a lot to be desired though; old signalling which helped create the 'Misery line' and needs ATO treatment. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2006 20:32:27 GMT
funny how the northern is at the extremes for the tube. The Northern is the most delayed surely, but the best trains (very arguably). The Northern got new trains, so they say, because of its 'Misery line' tag and LU felt they needed to get new trains out there to appease the passengers (plus the 59s and 62s weren't far from retirement anyway I guess and were still guard-worked). The signalling and track still leaves a lot to be desired though; old signalling which helped create the 'Misery line' and needs ATO treatment. Northern Line ATO SHOULD start being installed in 2007, with the Kennington - Morden section going over to ATO in 2008/9. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2006 21:13:43 GMT
Could be an interesting situation with part of the line ATO, and the other manually driven!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2006 21:29:13 GMT
The Central was part ATO and Part manual for a period...
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Post by c5 on Aug 31, 2006 23:42:08 GMT
I feel I should just add a bit to Central Simons post here.... An Initial Delay is just the delay to the next station, and 15 minutes is quite high for a "bog standard" Initial Delay. Take this for example: An Ammersham train from Baker St is cancelled (at Baker St because of lets say defective doors), the Initial Delay would be to Finchely Road, if the next train was 3 minutes that would be the Initial Delay, even though the Ammersham customers would have to wait another 15-20mins. Delays to trains cancelled for No Train Operator Available (ONA) tend not to be no more than 10 mins. Mainly Items/Delays over 15 mins tend to be non-LU attributed (Person Under a Train/Signal Failure). |
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Post by mandgc on Sept 1, 2006 0:26:46 GMT
First Time Visitors.
It must be very difficult when planning a visit to a new location to find out what would probably interest you most.
Why not, 'aveyond' , tell us what interests you most , ie. 'various types of rolling stock' , 'buisiest stations and sections of line' or whatever else you want to see?
Perhaps some suggestions for Half Day, Full Day trips, etc . to give a basic impression of the system would be useful.
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Post by aveyond06 on Sept 3, 2006 11:17:51 GMT
@mandgc : you mean which in the LU interest me?well, i'd like to avoid the busiest stations and section of lines, and the thing that interest me the most are rolling stocks, the most 'artistic' stations. also, i like to take (any) subway at night... i may add some questions (cuz u confused me a bit  ) 6. Which lines is ran by the oldest stocks 7. Which line(s) is the longest 8. Which line(s) runs on Saturday/Sunday 9. Which train(s) is the fastest 10. Which line(s) or station(s) has modern safety equipment 11. Which line(s) is the most "noticable"? 12. Which station(s) is the most 'artistic' 13. Whih station(s) is the cleanest? 14. Which line(s) has many closed stations? Also, does a book about old rolling stocks on the LU exists? Where can I find it? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2006 11:54:35 GMT
@mandgc : you mean which in the LU interest me?well, i'd like to avoid the busiest stations and section of lines, and the thing that interest me the most are rolling stocks, the most 'artistic' stations. also, i like to take (any) subway at night... i may add some questions (cuz u confused me a bit ) 6. Which lines is ran by the oldest stocks 7. Which line(s) is the longest 8. Which line(s) runs on Saturday/Sunday 9. Which train(s) is the fastest 10. Which line(s) or station(s) has modern safety equipment 11. Which line(s) is the most "noticable"? 12. Which station(s) is the most 'artistic' 13. Whih station(s) is the cleanest? 14. Which line(s) has many closed stations? Also, does a book about old rolling stocks on the LU exists? Where can I find it? 6. The A stock is the oldest at the moment on the SSR with the '67 on the Victoria the oldest tube stock 7. The central has the longest journey end to end and the Northern has the longest continuous tunnel in the world from East Finchley to Morden via Bank. 8. All lines do but the W&C has slightly different opening patterns. 9. The A stock has the fastest top speed which was 60 at one point but has been reduced due to wear and tear to make them last longer. The ATO lines (central & Vic) have the fastest acceleration. 10. The JLE is the newest and most advanced but all stations have to fulfill requirements for safety apart from some that have a special HSE exemption (ELL I think) 11. The JLE is very obvious once you get past Westminster with the PED and modern design. 12. Hard one, the Picc ones at the northern end have some great architecture and some on the Jub with the up lighting on escalators. There is great heritage everywhere. 13. Don't know about this one, but none are tottaly spotless. 14. The oldest tube lines do mostly, Piccadily and Northern have alot. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2006 12:04:18 GMT
1) Northern (Bank branch) is murder when I've been on there, at least between Euston and Bank. Northern below Kennington is cattle truck mode too. Victoria north of Victoria is pretty bad but not Northern (Bank) kind of bad. Central can also be packed, especially at the east end near the City. Circle is very busy, always. The busiest sections of the tube are listed here:- www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/using/useful-info/busiest-lines.aspThis is in order of number of passengers (i.e busiest), and not number of passengers vs actual capacity (i.e most crowded). You are talking out of your posterior on that answer. The Northern Line between Morden and Kennington has some of the highest capacity signalling on the tube (60sec roll out run in times), and runs the highest frequency of trains of the tube (30tph). The signalling capacity is lower on the rest of the line because the service is split between the branches, and thus higher capacity signalling is rarely needed. The Northern Line's problems are with the poor reliability of the signalling due to it's age, and the complexity of the line's operation. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2006 17:58:50 GMT
2) Northern! Trains are often quite far apart 'cos the signalling's rubbish You are talking out of your posterior on that answer. The Northern Line between Morden and Kennington has some of the highest capacity signalling on the tube (60sec roll out run in times), and runs the highest frequency of trains of the tube (30tph). The signalling capacity is lower on the rest of the line because the service is split between the branches, and thus higher capacity signalling is rarely needed. The Northern Line's problems are with the poor reliability of the signalling due to it's age, and the complexity of the line's operation. Ok, kudos to an extent, but I said the signalling is rubbish and you're saying it's not very reliable, surely we're agreeing there? I know it's 30tph on the Morden stretch and that is divided between the branches, but my point is that the poor signalling prevents trains from being higher in frequency above the river, perhaps I should've made this clearer in my original post (I never go below Waterloo being a north Londoner). Edit: And please don't tell me I'm talking out of my posterior, you don't make friends like that. An 'Actually, it's like this....' is quite sufficient, thank you. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2006 19:20:36 GMT
You are talking out of your posterior on that answer. The Northern Line between Morden and Kennington has some of the highest capacity signalling on the tube (60sec roll out run in times), and runs the highest frequency of trains of the tube (30tph). The signalling capacity is lower on the rest of the line because the service is split between the branches, and thus higher capacity signalling is rarely needed. The Northern Line's problems are with the poor reliability of the signalling due to it's age, and the complexity of the line's operation. Ok, kudos to an extent, but I said the signalling is rubbish and you're saying it's not very reliable, surely we're agreeing there? I know it's 30tph on the Morden stretch and that is divided between the branches, but my point is that the poor signalling prevents trains from being higher in frequency above the river, perhaps I should've made this clearer in my original post (I never go below Waterloo being a north Londoner. And you forget the Kennington loop trains too, surely that would make at least 35tph between both central London branches? I've waited at Euston more than 5 mins before. The two branches can probably handle approx 24tph each (48tph combined). However, due to the complexity of the lines operation, particularly Camden Town junction, the realistic timetabled capacity of approx 20tph per branch (40tph combined) is the most that the line can handle. As far as I know, the Northern Line in it's present configuration has never operated at significantly higher frequencies in the past, unlike many other LU lines. I apologise if my comment was a bit OTT. But, to be honest I get a bit fed up with seeing comments along the lines of "cos it's rubbish" appearing on message boards. Negative posts need to be justified, preferably with facts or well judged opinions. Don't worry, you are far from being the only offender. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Sept 3, 2006 19:40:38 GMT
Delays to trains cancelled for No Train Operator Available (ONA) tend not to be no more than 10 mins. Mainly Items/Delays over 15 mins tend to be non-LU attributed (Person Under a Train/Signal Failure). How can a signal failure not be attributed to LU? |
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Post by setttt on Sept 3, 2006 19:44:11 GMT
How can a signal failure not be attributed to LU? Presumably because LU are not responsible for maintaining the signaling equipment.  |
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Post by c5 on Sept 3, 2006 20:02:40 GMT
How can a signal failure not be attributed to LU? Presumably because LU are not responsible for maintaining the signaling equipment. I dont think i was being particuarly clear in my mini-rant there I was talking about LU being an operator and the Infraco being the infrastructure provider. To confuse matters further, Signalling Problems could be down to both parties. ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2006 20:08:52 GMT
Ok, kudos to an extent, but I said the signalling is rubbish and you're saying it's not very reliable, surely we're agreeing there? I know it's 30tph on the Morden stretch and that is divided between the branches, but my point is that the poor signalling prevents trains from being higher in frequency above the river, perhaps I should've made this clearer in my original post (I never go below Waterloo being a north Londoner. And you forget the Kennington loop trains too, surely that would make at least 35tph between both central London branches? I've waited at Euston more than 5 mins before. The two branches can probably handle approx 24tph each (48tph combined). However, due to the complexity of the lines operation, particularly Camden Town junction, the realistic timetabled capacity of approx 20tph per branch (40tph combined) is the most that the line can handle. As far as I know, the Northern Line in it's present configuration has never operated at significantly higher frequencies in the past, unlike many other LU lines. I apologise if my comment was a bit OTT. But, to be honest I get a bit fed up with seeing comments along the lines of "cos it's rubbish" appearing on message boards. Negative posts need to be justified, preferably with facts or well judged opinions. Don't worry, you are far from being the only offender. Fair enough Edit: To summarise our debate (  ) the problem with the Northern is the single branch at the south end which leaves the city and north branches with a tph that doesn't match the capacity those sections can take, and really do need to an extent. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Sept 3, 2006 20:14:49 GMT
Most delayed line? Circle surely? Maybe Northern and District next/
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2006 20:55:15 GMT
the circle is probably but not so noticeable because of all the different services on those particular lines.
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)
) the problem with the Northern is the single branch at the south end which leaves the city and north branches with a tph that doesn't match the capacity those sections can take, and really do need to an extent.
