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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 9:27:49 GMT
This one is for those who like to add crossovers to the parts of the network on which they have travelled, I know there a few! This Saturday, there is the opportunity to track bash the trailing crossover North of Highbury&Islington. I think the crossover is quite a way North of the station, so there is a fair distance of "wrong way" running (fully signalled of course) to add to the excitement.
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Post by trc666 on Aug 26, 2006 0:37:57 GMT
YES! I need to do that one, plus I need to go on the Victoria tomorrow today anyway!
Still need to do Warren Street, done Victoria though. I am the track recorder after all!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2006 9:20:31 GMT
YES! I need to do that one, plus I need to go on the Victoria tomorrow today anyway! Still need to do Warren Street, done Victoria though. I am the track recorder after all! There will be a Warren Street - Victoria closure coming up later in the year, so your wish will be realised...eventually! |
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Post by subwayrail on Aug 26, 2006 10:34:18 GMT
I'm doing the the Walthamstow - Highbury run today.
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Post by trc666 on Aug 26, 2006 10:41:42 GMT
Might see you about then! What time you going in? I'm going from Highbury to Seven Sisters to go to the football then back after.
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Post by subwayrail on Aug 26, 2006 11:04:03 GMT
Might see you about then! What time you going in? I'm going from Highbury to Seven Sisters to go to the football then back after. You have a PM. |
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Post by trc666 on Aug 26, 2006 19:23:58 GMT
I was there around 14:10 on my way to Seven Sisters and returned around 17:30. Also did platforms 2 and 3 at East Finchley today, another rare move, and done the Titans and Metrobuses on the rail rep. I've 'done' the route from the tipping out platform at Seven Sisters to Tottenham Hale before as well. Anybody else 'do' Highbury today?
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Aug 26, 2006 21:24:18 GMT
It has been suggested that the Sunday (27th) works were cancelled because of the GN line closure?
From another forum:
"In conjunction with the Kings Cross blockade tomorrow the following
applies:
GNER services are running with HSTs Peterborough to Finsbury Park.
They are reversing in platform 2 at Finsbury Park.
All FCC trains are terminating at Ali Pali with the option of WALKING
to Wood Green tube station or buses to / from Turnpike Lane. NOTE
that the Victoria Line is CLOSED due to planned works there leaving
all passengers to use the Piccadilly line.
Hull trains are slightly more interesting. Up trains from Hull will
be running via the Up Goods line from Alexandra Palace to Platform 1
at Finsbury Park. Down trains will then leave from platform 1 and run
to just short of Cannonbury (K375 signal) REVERSE and run via the
Down Cannonbury, Down Goods and Down slow 2 to Alexandra Palace."
Interesting about HT!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2006 22:17:54 GMT
It has been suggested that the Sunday (27th) works were cancelled because of the GN line closure? That is the case. The works have generally been planned around Arsenal games. Now I decided to go on a little detour to Highbury & Islington on my way to a music festival on Clapham Common today, and noted a few things at Highbury & Islington:- 1) The inbound train ran at 270 code from well before the crossover cavern right the way into the Highbury & Islington. Now I could understand this if the possession started at the SB starter (VJ9) giving the platform block a 180 code, but as there are two block marker boards (VJ10a & VJ10b) between the crossover and the SB starter signal, I would have though that the train would have run at full speed at least through the crossover cavern. So why was the 270 code in operation so far away from the station? 2) The train also run out of Highbury & Islington at 270 code until the whole train had passed through the crossover. I thought that all crossovers on the Victoria Line were rated for 50mph, is this not the case, or was there another reason for the 270 code? |
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Post by trc666 on Aug 27, 2006 0:19:39 GMT
My experience today (only having done the crossover today for the first time) was:
420 until just past the crossover cavern, then 270, then 180 on arrival at platform 5.
Reversing was 270 until past the crossover cavern, then up to 420.
270 and 420 codes are not permitted in station platforms. I think that a 270 should be allowed though closed stations as at the moment trains have to come to a complete stop, even when non-stopping stations.
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Post by tubeprune on Aug 27, 2006 9:10:58 GMT
1) The inbound train ran at 270 code from well before the crossover cavern right the way into the Highbury & Islington. Now I could understand this if the possession started at the SB starter (VJ9) giving the platform block a 180 code, but as there are two block marker boards (VJ10a & VJ10b) between the crossover and the SB starter signal, I would have though that the train would have run at full speed at least through the crossover cavern. So why was the 270 code in operation so far away from the station? 2) The train also run out of Highbury & Islington at 270 code until the whole train had passed through the crossover. I thought that all crossovers on the Victoria Line were rated for 50mph, is this not the case, or was there another reason for the 270 code? I don't understand how the train could start from H & I on a 270. You need a 420 to restart from a platform??? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2006 9:50:47 GMT
1) The inbound train ran at 270 code from well before the crossover cavern right the way into the Highbury & Islington. Now I could understand this if the possession started at the SB starter (VJ9) giving the platform block a 180 code, but as there are two block marker boards (VJ10a & VJ10b) between the crossover and the SB starter signal, I would have though that the train would have run at full speed at least through the crossover cavern. So why was the 270 code in operation so far away from the station? 2) The train also run out of Highbury & Islington at 270 code until the whole train had passed through the crossover. I thought that all crossovers on the Victoria Line were rated for 50mph, is this not the case, or was there another reason for the 270 code? I don't understand how the train could start from H & I on a 270. You need a 420 to restart from a platform??? I didn't know that  The NB train ran at under 25mph until it had cleared the crossover, which made me wrongly think it was running under a 270 code. So if it can only start with a 420 code, then maybe it was being driven in coded manual, and if so, why? |
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Post by trc666 on Aug 27, 2006 12:47:21 GMT
My mistake, 270 codes cannot be used in platform sections, but 420 codes are permitted. Does this mean a train can pass through a station at full linespeed?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 27, 2006 13:19:16 GMT
My mistake, 270 codes cannot be used in platform sections, but 420 codes are permitted. Does this mean a train can pass through a station at full linespeed? No. The platform JR maintains 180 code through the platform area for 15 sec, then the code will step up. I'd be surprised if what you thought was a 270 code really was one, as they're normally only used to restart a train from a signal or Headway Post. I'll have a look in some bookwirings over the next few days and report back. |
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Post by Tom on Aug 27, 2006 13:22:56 GMT
I think that a 270 should be allowed though closed stations as at the moment trains have to come to a complete stop, even when non-stopping stations. Why, when there's a perfectly adequate 180 code available to give a 22mph input to the train? |
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Post by tubeprune on Aug 27, 2006 16:25:29 GMT
I think that a 270 should be allowed though closed stations as at the moment trains have to come to a complete stop, even when non-stopping stations. Why, when there's a perfectly adequate 180 code available to give a 22mph input to the train? 180 code won't let you motor. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 27, 2006 16:47:47 GMT
I knew that.
The point I'm getting at is that putting a 270 code through platform areas has little benefit as there is already a code available for 22mph - the only difference is that it won't allow motoring. Once the code change JR has run it's time the code steps up to 420 permitting motoring anyway.
Besides, the train will pick up the brake spots and start braking for a station stop regardless of whether or not the train has to non-stop - there is no Station Skip facility like the central line.
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Post by towerman on Aug 27, 2006 19:08:30 GMT
It can be done on the Victoria Line,but only for long closures,when the Brixton Extension opened Pimlico wasn't ready,trains ran through on 270 code.
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Post by subwayrail on Aug 28, 2006 3:02:33 GMT
I didn't know that The NB train ran at under 25mph until it had cleared the crossover, which made me wrongly think it was running under a 270 code. So if it can only start with a 420 code, then maybe it was being driven in coded manual, and if so, why? Southbound to northbound reversing at H&I was being done in auto, initially with a 420 code to allow the train to start, but dropping to a 270 code well before the 8-car marker, and still with less than 20mph on the speedo. |
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Post by tubeprune on Aug 28, 2006 7:03:26 GMT
Southbound to northbound reversing at H&I was being done in auto, initially with a 420 code to allow the train to start, but dropping to a 270 code well before the 8-car marker, and still with less than 20mph on the speedo. That explains it! Thank you Subwayrail. I couldn't find a reference to the use of a 270 code at crossovers in my old signal dept. instructions for the Vic Line. There it says a 270 is used where the overlap on the next signal is 25 mph. Does this mean that, at H & I, when VJ4 clears (Wrong road starter for NB on SB Platform) a 270 is injected into a track circuit in rear of the xover (No 6 points reversed) but when VJ3 clears it gets a bog standard 420 over the same points in normal? How far beyond the xover do you get a 420? |
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Post by subwayrail on Aug 28, 2006 12:29:48 GMT
Does this mean that, at H & I, when VJ4 clears (Wrong road starter for NB on SB Platform) a 270 is injected into a track circuit in rear of the xover (No 6 points reversed) but when VJ3 clears it gets a bog standard 420 over the same points in normal? Yes, that is pretty much it. How far beyond the xover do you get a 420? I don't know the exact measurements, but I estimate that it is about the time the last car would be clear of the points. I'm almost certain that the codes stepped up from 270 to 420 before the limit of shunt marker, but to be sure I will look out for this if I do this move again in the near future. In case anybody is wondering, the limit of shunt marker is irrelevant for S/B to N/B moves - I am only using it as a position reference. |
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Post by tubeprune on Aug 28, 2006 13:36:03 GMT
Thanks Subwayrail. It's true - you learn something new every day.
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Post by Tom on Aug 29, 2006 19:35:49 GMT
I had a brief look at this today, and the 420 code is provided on MM track (berth for VJ4) but not on any other tracks in 4's route as far as ZZ track in the middle of the crossover. I didn't investigate further after that, but will do tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2006 22:31:15 GMT
So we've assertained that the train ran from the 8-car marker to the crossover in 270 code, but why was 270 code being given instead of 420 code? Was it something to do to wrong(ish) direction running, crossover speed limits, signal overlaps (as Tubeprune mentioned), or another reason?
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Post by tubeprune on Aug 30, 2006 5:37:09 GMT
So we've assertained that the train ran from the 8-car marker to the crossover in 270 code, but why was 270 code being given instead of 420 code? Was it something to do to wrong(ish) direction running, crossover speed limits, signal overlaps (as Tubeprune mentioned), or another reason? Logic tells me that the 270 code is to keep the speed down while the train is on the xover. |
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The NB train ran at under 25mph until it had cleared the crossover, which made me wrongly think it was running under a 270 code. So if it can only start with a 420 code, then maybe it was being driven in coded manual, and if so, why?
