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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2005 13:58:24 GMT
Saw on the BBC news last night that there's an investgations happening, because a vic train went between stations with the doors open.
How? Interlock failure or something else?
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Post by Christopher J on Nov 2, 2005 14:56:06 GMT
Hmm... Very strange! Saying that... A couple of months ago I was in a particular situation where a door flew open on a Victoria line Train, the story goes like this: Flying down the SB track between Green Park and Victoria, I was standing next to the doors ready to get off at Victoria, the Train flies into Victoria and the T/op had to cosh it half way down the platform if he wants to stop on the mark, the sudden increased force in braking made me fall forward (I wasn't holding onto anything at the time as I wasn‘t expecting the T/op to cosh it) and I put my hand on the door to aid me from falling, as I do the door swings right open as the Train is still doing around 15-20mph!!  I immediately take my hand off the door and it swings back shut again! It felt like just the smallest push could force it open!  Gave me quite a shock, has anybody else been in a similar situation? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2005 15:03:39 GMT
More likely a failure in the detector circuit for the doors on one of the carriage.
All LU stock has a series of switches inside each set of doors that detect the position of the doors. When the doors are in the closed position, the switches are closed and the door interlock circuit is energised and the "pilot light" is it, thus releasing the motoring contacts in the CTBC and allowing the T/Op to move the train.
In this case, either the switches got stuck closed, the door interlock circuit remained energised after the T/Op hit the twin door buttons, or the circuit was mistakenly cut out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2005 16:01:29 GMT
It is possible to cut out the door interlocks, but it's a sealed switch only to be used in specific circumstances. A train with door interlocks cut out will always go out of service.
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Post by subwayrail on Nov 2, 2005 16:12:05 GMT
The door engine/door arm assembly was faulty, and it is thought that the final straw was a passenger forcing the door fully open. The fault happened in such a way that the door interlock circuit was not broken. A track search was carried out by the following train, but nobody had fallen out. Hmm... Very strange! Saying that... A couple of months ago I was in a particular situation where a door flew open on a Victoria line Train, the story goes like this: Flying down the SB track between Green Park and Victoria, I was standing next to the doors ready to get off at Victoria, the Train flies into Victoria and the T/op had to cosh it half way down the platform if he wants to stop on the mark, the sudden increased force in braking made me fall forward (I wasn't holding onto anything at the time as I wasn‘t expecting the T/op to cosh it) and I put my hand on the door to aid me from falling, as I do the door swings right open as the Train is still doing around 15-20mph!! I immediately take my hand off the door and it swings back shut again! It felt like just the smallest push could force it open! Gave me quite a shock, has anybody else been in a similar situation? The doors can open by about four inches and is very common under heavy braking, though this should cause the loss of the pilot light. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2005 18:09:13 GMT
The door engine/door arm assembly was faulty, and it is thought that the final straw was a passenger forcing the door fully open. The fault happened in such a way that the door interlock circuit was not broken. A track search was carried out by the following train, but nobody had fallen out. Was this fault known before the train went into service? I am surprised that if it was known, the train was not taken out of service as promptly as possible - which could of course be difficult, given the heavy loadings on the line. Are you at liberty to describe how a faulty door engine and a subsequent forced opening of the door leaves did not break the door interlock? I must confess to being unimpressed with the actions of the person who forced the door... |
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Post by q8 on Nov 2, 2005 19:51:20 GMT
Oh broken door arms are nothing new. Nor are pilot lights with the doors open!! I have had both as a guard. I once had given the bell after closing the doors and as the train was leaving the platform someone jumped OUT. Train was not moving fast but down came that handle and ran to the guy who had appared like a rabbit out of a hat. Asked him HOW he got out and he pointed. Lo, and behold a door wide open!! My driver came through the train (His cab being in the tunnel). We checked and there was a nice blue light a-glowing in the panels.
So OOS came the train. The offending door was quite easy to move back and forth. When the fitter checked the door arm was broken in two. Probably as a result of a punter shoving it back when it was closing. The stub was hanging on the door and the rest of the arm was in place and enough to make and break the interlock.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 2, 2005 22:26:05 GMT
mutters Wouldn't have happened with EDO...would it?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 2, 2005 22:48:37 GMT
There was a story in the subStandard about this (i've been on their website - but couldn't find it on there). The door mechanism's are apparently being modified by a sub contractor (reminds me of the Northern line for some reason  ), and they are being blamed for not doing right. Of course the unions have already threatened action......... whoops - I put this on the wrong thread ( ) - now it's in the right place! ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by subwayrail on Nov 3, 2005 17:21:26 GMT
Was this fault known before the train went into service? I am surprised that if it was known, the train was not taken out of service as promptly as possible - which could of course be difficult, given the heavy loadings on the line. AFAIK nobody was aware of the problem, and it had not manifested itself until the train had been in service for some time. As soon as a passenger alerted the driver, it was taken out of service immediately. I quite agree about passengers who force open doors, but it is not absolutely clear if this actually happened. As to the details of how this fault did not break the interlock circuit, I'm afraid that my knowledge in this area is rather limited, as it is not something I have had the opportunity to study (drivers these days are only taught about systems they can fix themselves and how to get moving with faults they cannot fix). This, rather than confidentiality, prevents me from elaborating further. Q8 seems to have a better idea though.  |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Nov 4, 2005 11:23:23 GMT
Taken from the RMT Website 1 November 2005
Private Tube maintenance consortium Metronet sub-contracted another company RPL to increase air pressure to speed up door-closing operations on Victoria Line trains - modifications that led to a door remaining open near Oxford Circus on October at around 19.00 hours.
The increased air pressure has damaged door guides and led to a train door staying open by around 15 inches, yet all the train drivers' safety lights indicated that all doors were shut on the moving train.
"Shoddy modifications carried out by unqualified ageny staff has led to another safety crisis on the Tube network," RMT general secretary Bob Crow said today.
"we understand that since the incident fully-licensed Metronet staff, formerly employed directly by London Underground, have foumd numerous other door faults and trains modified bt RPL are still in service.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 4, 2005 11:41:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2005 17:20:43 GMT
Flying down the SB track between Green Park and Victoria, I was standing next to the doors ready to get off at Victoria, the Train flies into Victoria and the T/op had to cosh it half way down the platform if he wants to stop on the mark, the sudden increased force in braking made me fall forward (I wasn't holding onto anything at the time as I wasn‘t expecting the T/op to cosh it) and I put my hand on the door to aid me from falling, as I do the door swings right open as the Train is still doing around 15-20mph!! I immediately take my hand off the door and it swings back shut again! It felt like just the smallest push could force it open! Dont over - exaggerate! The T/op does not have to kosh it half way along the platform to stop at Victoria. The train will stop quite happily at the headwall of the platform, which isnt far from the mark. Simply more EP or a bit of 'emcy' solves the problem, just before the train stops As has been explained before, doors open about 4 inches, one would not have flown right open, unless it was defective, which would have meant the train would have been tipped out. |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 4, 2005 18:13:19 GMT
I'm with MA on this - who said T/Op coshed it? It was almost certainly in auto.
Scare stories do not help. Undoubtedly there was a defect but exaggeration obscures the problem, not amplifies it.
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Post by doubletrigger on Nov 4, 2005 18:41:32 GMT
If the door seemed to be able to move freely with little force, I reckon the air supply may have just been a little low and some doors do have a little room for movement. Purely theory from my head though.
Even a loss in interlock so suddenly in then out can go un-noticed, however if the driver does notice it, by NR rulings he must stop and in DOO, inspect the problem himself or consult the guard should one be available... but as for a door opening right up just through a little push I find unbelievable, otherwise air pressure changes themselves could potentially be enough to cause movement in the doors.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 4, 2005 21:22:46 GMT
Double trigger - Firstly, this is NOT Network Rail, it's LUL!!
Secondly - Air is only used to close the doors - NOT hold them closed.
Thirdly - If the pilot light is lost, the motors drop out. Motoring can then only be achieved by going to 'off & release' and back to a motoring position. Granted I don't know how the ATO lines work exactly, but trust me, the driver will ALWAYS be aware of a loss of pilot light.
The modifications carried out on the Vic line trains were to increase the speed at which the doors close, that is all. The doors are held closed by a spring, which does have some 'tolorence' built in, due to idiots that trap themselves in the doors.
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Post by markextube on Nov 6, 2005 13:50:59 GMT
Over the years on various stock on various lines i have experienced the spring door opening about 4 inches when the train has braked sharply.
This would happen alot on the 59 when i was a guard.
Its just the press hyping it up as usual.
As you know one door of double door has the allowance to open a few inches to release trapped items.
Although a few years ago i did experience a very strange situation and thinking about it still do not know what happened.
Picture Oxford circus southbound vic line platform, i'm on the train, the train comes to a stop and the doors open. I get off and walk down. What do i see but a man inside the train with his head on the outside and the double doors closed around his neck.
Yes his set of double doors are closed around his neck his head outside and all the other doors are open?
Did he travel from warren st to oxo with his head trapped outside? Or did that set of doors close around his neck?
Passengers took hold of a whiteboared and used it to try and lever the doors open. Didn't work as the door had passed the locking stage. Eventually the train op walks down and uses a paddle/ice sraper for.... as experienced staff know....
But what on earth was his head doing stuck on the outside and how did it happen?
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I immediately take my hand off the door and it swings back shut again! It felt like just the smallest push could force it open! 
), and they are being blamed for not doing right. Of course the unions have already threatened action.........
