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Post by roboverground on Jun 29, 2007 19:27:28 GMT
Greetings, new to the board, first post, I see on page 2 of the Bakerloo Line section the thread regarding the buffer stop collision that occurred early in the morning at the reversing siding,just North of Harrow & Wealdstone (dc lines) station has been locked for various non topic related reasons. Has anyone got photos of this incident? Reason I'm asking I worked at Willesden Brent/Wembley Freight Centre for Railfreight Distribution in those days and whilst on my way to work on the AC lines (up slow) I got paged and asked to attend (far to early for the normal operations management to be up!) anyway the electric unit I was on was cautioned on the approach to Harrow and after arriving at the platform I went over to the tube stock which had pushed the stop block back which in turn had struck an overhead line stantion(gantry) carrying overhead line over all 4 "main" lines. Traction current was still on, no protection (dets/flags) etc had been placed and the signalbox at Willesden (suburban) had little idea of the "severity" of the incident.... I will save my jottings and other info for a bit later, but in the pre-digital camera / camera phones days I never did take any pictures on site... can anyone fill some gaps for me?? . Regards Rob  will post further info as my grey matter remembers it |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2007 20:23:51 GMT
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Post by roboverground on Jun 30, 2007 13:33:11 GMT
29th March 1994 and not 1996 as originally posted
dm north was 3539 (scrapped)
trailer 4539 (recovered by rail then scrapped)
undm 3439 repaired and now renumbered 3399 (also moves A end south to D end North)
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Anyway,
Upon my arrival the south DM was well north of the ground position light exit signal at what was and still is a "tight" siding.
The motorman was at the south end dazed and stumbling about within the saloon. No keys were present nor had the south end desk been opened.
Naturally I asked after his welfare, sat him down in the saloon and asked the all to important what the "f" has happened here?
Theup dc line had been fouled by the stop block, the down fast on the main line was passable at caution but blocked to electric traction due to overhead line sagging.
London Fire Brigade,Ambulance,BTP and Railtrack staff then flooded the place, I reminded them that at this stage traction current was still on.
Part 3 to follow
Robin
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jun 30, 2007 20:28:33 GMT
3399 is actually in the middle of a 4 car unit(3299)at the south end,3299 was originally 3357,replaced 3257 written off after Piccadilly Circus derailment.
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Post by roboverground on Jul 4, 2007 5:49:22 GMT
anyway continuing the story, the t/o was on nights and the last part of his duty was to go to Harrow and wealdstone, reverse then up to Queens Park, relief then home to bed.
After getting the "cat's eye" signal to go into the reversing siding, it appears he thought he was "right away" i.e. motoring to the next station. As the siding does not have "spped control or traction control" he realised too late that instead of a few miles to the next station the stop block infact was ahead. leaving the cab before impact (wise man as knee hole area was pushed in) the leading DM hit the stop block that broke then pushed it like a plough until hitting an overhead line mast.
Recovery involved two battery locos.
Rob
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2007 21:35:15 GMT
Remember it well as crew on battery loco sent to recover set were miffed when someone on a BR loco accidentally threw teabags onto roof of said loco - rather upsetting the personal dignity of the crew concerned ......
Said a good BR mate of mine who was there
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Post by roboverground on Jul 9, 2007 14:06:39 GMT
Two battery locos present from lunchtime if I remember.....
tea bags on the roof from passing mainline services...outrageous!
Robin
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Post by superteacher on Dec 23, 2007 21:35:28 GMT
Am I imagining things, or did a Bakerloo train once end up going towards Headstone Lane (after the service north of Harrow had been withdrawn), and then end up stalled because it had no current return (due to 4th rail not being operational)?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2007 12:33:42 GMT
I have it on good authority that well after withdrawal of LUL passenger stock north of H&W that a 59 stock ran empty to Watford in order to clear the line (derailment in the reversing siding) -
in the words of my correspondant "the veteran motorman went off with a load of sparking but got there and back"
No date regrettably - but circa 1986 .....
He was also the first man there in Kensal Green when a 313 rear ended a 59TS - (1984) - said the passengers were a resilient bunch who just melted away with no quibble !
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Post by superteacher on Dec 29, 2007 13:55:48 GMT
This suggests that the 4th rail was dropped quite a while after withdrawal north of Harrow. Did the driver of the 59ts need a pilotman to go to Watford, because although he probably knew the road well, a long time would have elapsed since his last trip there - 4 years!
I am aware that after a certain time limit of not having driven on a certain route, underground drivers are required to re-learn the road and be re-tested. What is this time limit, and was this the same for NR (or BR, or whatever else they've been called over the years!)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2007 15:39:55 GMT
I am aware that after a certain time limit of not having driven on a certain route, underground drivers are required to re-learn the road and be re-tested. What is this time limit, and was this the same for NR (or BR, or whatever else they've been called over the years!) On NR (as you call it  ) the time limit is six months for a refresher, but we do not need retesting. |
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Post by Colin on Dec 29, 2007 21:44:03 GMT
On LUL it's six months too - dunno if that was the case all those years ago though  |
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Post by c5 on Dec 29, 2007 21:52:58 GMT
On LUL it's six months too - dunno if that was the case all those years ago though It is the same "elsewhere" too. 6 Months is the minimum standard as set out by the ORR. There are then some lower limits in certain locations on LUL in joint ORR/LUL/Trade Union agreements |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 29, 2007 22:06:54 GMT
Is it the same time limit for driving a certain type of train stock - I know that a few years ago, new drivers were often transferred away from their own line until a permanent vacancy came up at their home depot. I was thinking that if their new temporary line operated different stock, they would have to be trained on that, and if they then were away from their own line for too long, would have to be re-licensed on that stock too!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2007 23:22:44 GMT
I suspect (like a lot of things in pre-safety audit days) that a veteran motorman had enough common sense to drive an ECS train with sufficient caution in daylight to stay out of trouble. He no doubt would have seen it as a slight on his professional skills to ask for a pilotman - and of course he like most railwaymen wanted to keep the job going !
Train crew route knowledge as you say has always been 6 months - but in an emergency ......!!!!!
Could come out with a load of stories here ....
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Post by bakerloo38 on Aug 8, 2008 7:53:08 GMT
the driver that day was reduced to guard for a year and re qualified and was at Qpk for a number of years before moving to Ricky, he was dismissed in june of this year for hitting the stops at Uxbridge and not reporting it, on appeal his dismissal was upheld. |
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Post by bakerloo38 on Aug 8, 2008 8:02:22 GMT
This suggests that the 4th rail was dropped quite a while after withdrawal north of Harrow. Did the driver of the 59ts need a pilotman to go to Watford, because although he probably knew the road well, a long time would have elapsed since his last trip there - 4 years! I am aware that after a certain time limit of not having driven on a certain route, underground drivers are required to re-learn the road and be re-tested. What is this time limit, and was this the same for NR (or BR, or whatever else they've been called over the years!) Croxley had its own depot then and the rest of the Bakerloo had one duty to and from Watford, but owing to the Mafia one could go for years without doing those duties, but it was unheard of to ask for a pilotman,or refresher, as an ex BR man when i was rostered there and reminded the SM (DCM) i had no road knowledge i was told LUL didnt do route learning. we did not sign off on routes like on BR only on stock, 38 stock, 59 stock, 72 stock 81 Jub stock and the sleet loco pure westinghouse, |
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Post by bakerloo38 on Aug 9, 2008 0:33:52 GMT
I have it on good authority that well after withdrawal of LUL passenger stock north of H&W that a 59 stock ran empty to Watford in order to clear the line (derailment in the reversing siding) - in the words of my correspondant "the veteran motorman went off with a load of sparking but got there and back" No date regrettably - but circa 1986 ..... He was also the first man there in Kensal Green when a 313 rear ended a 59TS - (1984) - said the passengers were a resilient bunch who just melted away with no quibble ! The driver of the train rear ended outside Kensal green Tunnel was the same driver who came off the road at Picc , hes now at ricky. the guard who was commended at the time was later let go for abusing a passenger, whacky or what (pun) |
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) the time limit is six months for a refresher, but we do not need retesting.
