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Post by imbecile on Aug 1, 2006 4:37:34 GMT
Hello chaps, relatively frequent lurker to the forum here, although I've never had cause to register. Anyhow, I'm currently temporarily in Hong Kong, and the underground system here made me think...
No, this is not yet another thread about Air Con.
Why can't we have the escalators on the LU running at at least twice the speed that they currently do? It works in HK, and I can't see why it wouldn't work in Blighty. Any chance you can get it sped up in the fortnight that I'm still here?
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Post by Colin on Aug 1, 2006 5:11:44 GMT
Hello chaps, relatively frequent lurker to the forum here, although I've never had cause to register. Welcome  Anyhow, I'm currently temporarily in Hong Kong, and the underground system here made me think... No, this is not yet another thread about Air Con. Thank gawd for that  ;D ;D ;D Why can't we have the escalators on the LU running at at least twice the speed that they currently do? It works in HK, and I can't see why it wouldn't work in Blighty. Any chance you can get it sped up in the fortnight that I'm still here? In my experience, many tourists stop when they get to the top or bottom of escalators to read signs etc. They often cause havoc by not realising there are more people behind them - i'm sure by now you are imagining the scene ;D............... Then there's the mums with their buggies, people with dogs (most of whom know that dogs should be carried or the escalator switched off to protect their paws), elderly etc with their walking sticks, blind customers, the list goes on. Also, if the escalators were speeded up, they could [at some stations] very quickly add to congestion on platforms. One final point, if the escalator is traveling faster and the emergency stop button is pressed, i'd imagine we'd be left with quite a mess to clear up ;D Whilst it probably works very well in Hong Kong, I just can't see it working on dear old LUL. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2006 6:05:32 GMT
I was in HK recently, and did not notice that the MTR escalators seemed to be running particularly fast.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that, in the early days of escalators on the LU, management tried speeding them up. It was found that, above a certain speed, faster escalators actually slowed passenger movement, as even the able-bodied hesitated before stepping on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2006 8:09:21 GMT
Yeah, and it's a long way to fall down.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2006 8:51:25 GMT
Yes, I noticed that while I was in Hong Kong. They can get a little scarythat fast, but yes, it works in Hong Kong. Congestion on the platforms is normal during the peaks. However, the platforms are longer and there are screen doors (noticed that?). However, imbecile (no offence meant ;D) they (escalators) could work well at 150 percent the current speed.
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 1, 2006 19:19:15 GMT
Funny I was thinking of escalator speeds at work today, when it was quiet. Yes I agree with other posts about small ticket halls/congestion of platforms as well as people having the tendency to stand in the way at the top/bottom of an escalator.
I know it is common sense not to do this, but a fair few of the pax are none too bright.
Diverging slightly, there are high speed lifts at locations which have deep platforms, Hampstead being the most obvious one.
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Post by donnytom on Aug 3, 2006 11:18:18 GMT
There was a station on the Prague metro with old-looking but very fast-moving escalators, and it had made every other escalator feel slow since! Escalators in a few other European places were responsive to demand, only starting when somebody stepped on a plate at the top / bottom. There were some that operated at a slower speed until somebody was nearby, too. This may be a better solution for saving energy whilst preventing escalator wear.
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Post by Chris W on Aug 3, 2006 12:07:57 GMT
Gents How about if LU increased escalator speed slightly every 6-12 months, then the difference would hardly be noticed.... within minimal disruption As regards congestion of stations how about the exit escalators run faster than the entrance and therefore customers leave quicker  I'm not putting the above comments forward as serious options, just rather as observations to previous posts What is the existing speed for escalators and what tests were conducted to ascertain the appropriate or optimum speed?  Its strange what works in one part of the world might not in another  |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 3, 2006 13:13:57 GMT
How fast? "Moving sidewalks are often used in airports where there is a long distance to walk between terminals, and in metro stations. The speed is usually around 2 mph, but there is a high-speed version with a speed of 5 1/2 mph at Gare Montparnasse station in Paris." "The speed of a moving walkway is usually 3 km/h [1.86mph], but there is a high-speed version at Gare Montparnasse station in Paris. At first it operated at 12 km/h [7.46mph] but too many people were falling over, so the speed was reduced to 9 km/h [5.59mph]." --- "Escalator at Earls Court Station, London. The Illustrated London News of October 14, 1911 wrote, "London has come into line with New York in the matter of the Escalator. The passenger on his way from the Piccadilly tube station steps on a platform going 90 feet per minute and finds that they immediately form into a perfect stairway. For descent it is the same. Should a passenger wish to move faster than the stairs he can run up of down. The fascinating device combines pleasure with business and not a few make the up and down trip several times, enjoying the sensation."" [90 feet per minute = 1.02mph] From: a 2002 article in Popular Science: "Escalators run at one speed: slow. But they could become high-speed transports if research at Mitsubishi pans out. Engineers there have invented a way to increase an escalator's speed by 50 percent on straightaways while maintaining a safe, slow pace at entry and exit points. The trick: Large-diameter pulleys at the escalator's edges force the rollers supporting the steps to take wide turns, slowing them down. Mitsubishi hopes to commercialize the variable-speed escalator within two to three years. " this page looks to go into great detail about the optimum speed for an escalator. It is complicated though - I've just skim read it and I don't understand it! "Escalators in the U.S. run at either 90 or 120 F.P.M (I don`t know what that comes out to be in metric)Depending on the application." [1.02 or 1.36mph] "In the Uk most escalators operate at 0.5 m/s although public service ones eg; subways may operate at 0.65m/s" [1.12 / 1.45 mph] "[In Taiwan] MRT escalators travel at 39 meters per minute. Escalators in department stores travel at 30 meters per minute." [1.12 / 1.45 mph, same as the UK] About the escalators in the Tyne Pedestrian/Cyclist Tunnel: "The 200 ft (61m.) long single flight Waygood Otis escalators have a vertical rise of 85ft (25.8m.) On construction they were believed to be the longest single lift escalators in the world and are thought to be still the longest in this country. The escalators run at 150 ft (46 m.) per minute and are considered to be the first in the country built with the intention of carrying cyclists. A speed ray regulator, installed as part of the original design, controls the speed of the escalators depending on the level of usage, reducing the speed of travel when no one is using the escalators." [1.7mph - if these figures are true then the escalators travel a longer horizontal distance than those at Angel tube station, but climb 5ft less vertically] One company in Singapore is advertising escalators that travel at 0.5m/s = 1.12mph This reasearch I think shows that the escalators at at least 1 MRT station in Singapore travels at 0.689m/s = 1.54mph. Escalators in Hong Kong travel slower, so presumably about 1.12 or 1.45 mph. note that although the fastest appears to be the Tyne Tunnel escalator, this is shallower than standard and this probably is important. |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 3, 2006 13:29:16 GMT
Gents How about if LU increased escalator speed slightly every 6-12 months, then the difference would hardly be noticed.... within minimal disruption Probably not by regular travelers, but from the googling I've just done, it is clear that people notice the difference between escalators going at 1.02 and 1.12mph. As regards congestion of stations how about the exit escalators run faster than the entrance and therefore customers leave quicker I'm obvioulsy not an expert, but I can see how this would have benefits. Where you have two paralel escalators in the same direction perhaps one could be set at a higher speed than the other to increase the flow but allow those not comfortable with the increased speed to go slower. If there were signs clearly marking "fast" and "slow" this I'm sure would please those in a rush and those not keen on going quickly. I'm not putting the above comments forward as serious options, just rather as observations to previous posts Why not? In my humble non-expert opinion they are worthy of at least an initial consideration. What is the existing speed for escalators and what tests were conducted to ascertain the appropriate or optimum speed? Finding the optimum speed afaict appears only to have been done in terms of maxmium throughput when compared to stairs. In all cases it looks to involve very complicated maths relating to passenger flow movements, average walking and climbing speeds, widths of escalators and stairways, etc. Its strange what works in one part of the world might not in another I've not found anything official, but what I have found is that escalators are dangerous. They can give you some very nasty injuries, through no fault of your own, let alone when you're not exactly doing as you should - from TfL: "Escalators are consistently the most common place for injuries to occur with approximately a third of injuries on the Tube taking place on escalators. Common causes for such accidents include loss of balance due to being encumbered with heavy or bulky luggage, running on or misusing the escalators or being under the influence of alcohol." The anedotal evidence is that the more litigious a society, the slower their escalators run. Note that the USA standard is slower than everywhere else for example. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2006 17:19:14 GMT
Has anyone noticed that on some escalators on the LU, the handrail moves slightly faster than the treads? That trav-o-lator at Waterloo does it...
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Post by Oracle on Aug 3, 2006 17:39:42 GMT
They always have done since the wooden ones froim what I can recall. It was explained to me once why this happens, and so no doubt someome will explain?
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 3, 2006 17:45:50 GMT
Speaking of which... have all the wooden ones now been withdrawn?
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Post by Chris M on Aug 3, 2006 17:53:16 GMT
re: handrails moving faster than treads: Basically it is gears getting out of synch. I found a very good explanation earlier today, and of course now I can't find it... ah, here it is answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060727080159AA9M3WQSomething else I found while doing all that searching earlier was a group of people speculating that if you could adjust the speed of the escalator precisely then in theory you could get a slinky to keep going infinitely ;D |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 3, 2006 17:56:56 GMT
Speaking of which... have all the wooden ones now been withdrawn? According to Wikipedia the only wooden escalator remaining in service on the underground is at Greenford (not a station I've ever visited). I believe there are still a fair number around in other places (including the Tyne pedestrian/cyclist tunnel that I mentioned earlier). Chris |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2006 0:09:59 GMT
So Greenford's wooden treads are still present then? I thought they were taken out a while back...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2006 17:04:06 GMT
Marylebone used to have one until fairly recently. Swiss Cottage retains the older type handrail; you can see the woven thread showing through the rubbery stuff on the actual handrail... Noticed too that the vertical from step to handrail is a lot lower on this model [Swiss Cottage] than at say, Canary Wharf...
I'm pretty sure Greenford retains the wooden treads, but am not 100%, since I've never actually had a proper look. If I remember, I'll have a look in a few days time...
Edit: Went to edit original post and pressed delete icon by accident...
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 4, 2006 17:25:59 GMT
I went to Greenford about 6 weeks ago, and it does indeed, still have the wooden treads.
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Post by Oracle on Aug 4, 2006 18:09:44 GMT
Are Earl's Court Exhibition exit escalators still wooden/uplighted?
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 4, 2006 18:27:25 GMT
No idea sir, no idea, never go down there, on account of the light [or lack of it] |
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Post by Oracle on Aug 4, 2006 19:01:48 GMT
EC Exhibition exit for the Motor Show used to be a time warp...rattling old wooden escalators, uplighters, old advert frames. Lovely!
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Post by Colin on Aug 4, 2006 22:03:21 GMT
The Earls Court exhibition escalators do still retain the wonderful uplighters - but the wood is a distant memory now. I started my stations work there in April 2001 - they were long gone by then.
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;D ;D ;D
