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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2005 22:14:09 GMT
I've heard a few words on the idea that this station between Kings X and Caledonian Road, is to reopen.
two separate reasons
because of the International Terminal at St Pancras because of the new Stadium
Anyone have anything 'concrete' on this???
[glow=red,2,300]EDIT: I've deleted the offending word! I hope that pleases those whom it appears I offended. [/glow]
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Post by setttt on Nov 30, 2005 23:09:12 GMT
I could understand if it was reopened in connection with the CTRL, but isn't the new gooner stadium right next to Finsbury Park
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Post by doubletrigger on Dec 1, 2005 0:53:30 GMT
As I once thought... the new stadium is not right next to Finsbury Park, a fair walk from leaving the station, just from the ECML it doesn't seem that far but it is. York Road would serve as a direct link to it which would be perfect for match days... considering the amount of money Arsenal have (stunning stadium so far!) they may be assisting financially if it is to be re opened I imagine.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2005 11:03:13 GMT
There is also the fact that York Road has lift shafts which descend all the way to platform level, like Earl's Court and Caledonian Road. Ergo, instant step-free access.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2005 11:12:17 GMT
Isn't Caledonian Road going to be improved to cope with the Arsenal fans?
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Dec 1, 2005 11:38:02 GMT
Ive just lifted this from the Arsenal website
If this is the case I cannot see why the reopening of York Road or development of Caledonian Road has anything to do with transport of Arsenal fans..
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Tom
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Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Dec 1, 2005 16:41:23 GMT
Holloway Road was souuposed to be redeveloped for Arsenal fans...
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Post by setttt on Dec 1, 2005 17:00:41 GMT
...redeveloped for Arsenal fans... How depressing. I wish they'd redevelope Seven Sisters for Spurs fans.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2005 17:04:48 GMT
I passed through Drayton Park not long ago, and part of the terraces almost bridges the tracks. I'm not a footie fan, [waits for the encore of boo's and hisses] but I'm impressed by the sheer size of the Stadium.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2005 17:25:26 GMT
I'm not a footie fan, [waits for the encore of boo's and hisses] I used to be entirely indifferent to football, but the more times I see the Chelsea and West Ham fans on the District line, the more I actively hate it! Strangely, Fulham fans don't seem too bad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2005 21:17:00 GMT
There is also the fact that York Road has lift shafts which descend all the way to platform level, like Earl's Court and Caledonian Road. Ergo, instant step-free access. The lifts may give step-free access, but lifts in general are not suitable for crowds such as a stadium emptying. Have a look at Russell Square around 9.30 am as the backpackers push and shove to get in to use their Travelcards, and then multiply the problem a thousandfold. For York Road to be useful for stadium traffic, it would need major refurbishment, probably involving provision of escalators as well as lifts, and it seems unlikely anyone would come up with the millions if Arsenal is only three minutes' walk....
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Post by Tomcakes on Dec 1, 2005 21:38:12 GMT
I also heard it was to be reopened in connection with CTRL?
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Post by ejitrafik on Dec 1, 2005 21:40:56 GMT
If it was to be reopened they'd have to relocate the enterance, so the old one is directly above the platforms, and it's already being used by another company.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2005 23:19:28 GMT
tube operator92
in future would you please not type the words Emirates stadium on this board, please omit the word Emirates and replace it with the word TOILET
thankyou most kindly
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Post by setttt on Dec 1, 2005 23:21:58 GMT
in future would you please not type the words Emirates stadium on this board, please omit the word Emirates and replace it with the word TOILET I agree fully. Any chance of making an amendment to the swear filter, Dave? ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2005 23:46:19 GMT
posted a reply to this already but for some reason the message wast put on the board !! most prob cas i mentioned the word Toliet tubeoperator92 ,please do NOT use the word emirates when you are referring to the monstrosity they are bulidng on that sewage pit , the words u need are toilette
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2005 23:58:46 GMT
There is also the fact that York Road has lift shafts which descend all the way to platform level, like Earl's Court and Caledonian Road. Ergo, instant step-free access. The lifts may give step-free access, but lifts in general are not suitable for crowds such as a stadium emptying. No one is suggesting that they are. Earl's Court has got two escalators to support the lifts; I'm sure that York Road would get three. Have a look at Russell Square around 9.30 am as the backpackers push and shove to get in to use their Travelcards, and then multiply the problem a thousandfold. No thanks! For York Road to be useful for stadium traffic, it would need major refurbishment, probably involving provision of escalators as well as lifts, and it seems unlikely anyone would come up with the millions if Arsenal is only three minutes' walk.... Again, I'm not suggesting that TfL would stop at restoring the lifts - I'm absolutely certain that they would build an escalator shaft.
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Post by Admin Team on Dec 2, 2005 9:31:29 GMT
Sorry - in a thread going back several months now (I'm sure Colin will be along shortly with the link ) I did warn about the use of 'robust' language! In the football context there are a number of words that I could cheerfully add; some of which could actually be rather amusing, come to think of it....... No - let's not start on that!!!!!
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Dec 2, 2005 10:42:44 GMT
And Solidbond made a strong post about political and religious intolerance.
Since football is almost a religion in this country, let's have no more anti-Arsenal comments: some veteran members may get very upset.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Dec 2, 2005 17:19:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2005 9:28:05 GMT
Going back to the lift issue - lift maybe coming back into fashion for access to very deep metro stations. This because building inclined escalator shafts is more expensive to build to than vertical shafts, and lifts have a faster travelling time than multiple escalator banks. The new very deep Line 9 in Barcelona only has lifts at deep level stations, however 6 lifts are provided at each station to keep up the capacity.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2005 17:39:26 GMT
York Road would be well-suited to installing additional lifts then, as the platform tunnels are already wide enough for the existing lift shafts.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2006 16:16:00 GMT
A study is being done to work out whether its opening. However:
a) There is no safety case for York Road. It would have to be re-built to modern standards - which means secondary means of escape. Which means ££££s
b) The Leslie Green stations with lifts don't give step free access. They tend to have lift landings at a mezzanine level with steps to the platform. So you wouldn't automatically get step-free - which would be mandaotroy as it would be treated as a new station.
c) You'd would lose some line capacity on the Picc with the extra stop.
d) There could be problems at KXStP. The upgrade there improves access between the surface and platform - NOT interchange. Most York Road passengers would change at KXStP.
Don't hold your breath....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2006 3:21:27 GMT
A study is being done to work out whether its opening. However: a) There is no safety case for York Road. It would have to be re-built to modern standards - which means secondary means of escape. Which means ££££s What sort of secondary escape? b) The Leslie Green stations with lifts don't give step free access. They tend to have lift landings at a mezzanine level with steps to the platform. So you wouldn't automatically get step-free - which would be mandaotroy as it would be treated as a new station. Again, I have read in myriad places that the lift shafts at York Road, like Earl's Court Picc and Caledonian Road, descend all the way to platform level. Full stop. Surely that is the biggest obstacle removed?!? c) You'd would lose some line capacity on the Picc with the extra stop. True. d) There could be problems at KXStP. The upgrade there improves access between the surface and platform - NOT interchange. Most York Road passengers would change at KXStP. For what types of journeys? If York Way NLR is reopened too then you have a whole different set of journeys made available which may not involve KxStP, especially if Kenny L gets control of Silverlink Metro via TfL London Rail.
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Post by dunois on Jan 5, 2006 11:25:19 GMT
By secondary escape I think that he was talking about a spiral staircase or something like that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2006 11:48:19 GMT
Secondary means of escape = whole seperate stair case - means that if the bottom of the lifts/existing spirals had a fire they access via a different staircase further along the platform.
<i>For what types of journeys? If York Way NLR is reopened too then you have a whole different set of journeys made available which may not involve KxStP, especially if Kenny L gets control of Silverlink Metro via TfL London Rail</i>
Any journeys involving onward change to other lines at KXStP - i.e. many going into the Central Area.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2006 20:23:22 GMT
A question for Senior planner.....
If a new, or reopened station has to have a secondary means of escape, does mean that there have to be two completely seperate routes to the surface (which I would guess is the most likely answer), or can they surface at the same point, or leave platform level at the same point? Also what are the rules on where the emergency exits are positioned on the platforms (as the JLE usually has emergency exits near to the ends of the platforms)?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 5, 2006 23:15:58 GMT
Perhaps I can help?
The secondary means of escape is part of the Fire Precautions Act (sub surface railways) 1989. Most staff refer to it as section 12 (the above act is made possible by section 12 of the Fire Precautions Act 1971). The 1989 act was born following the Fennel report on the Kings Cross disaster (Nov, 1987).
Ok that's the history lesson - the secondary means of escape must always be provided from an area defined as sub surface in the above act. As it is a back up, it must be in a different area to the main escape route, and whenever possible, it should lead to a separate area at street level. The secondary route is the one that must have emergency exit signs all the way to street level.
That is my understanding - if someone knows better, i'll bow to their Superior knowledge.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2006 11:29:53 GMT
Colin has explained it better than I can.
Oh, and even if the lifts go to platform level you'd have to break out around them for new landings.
And yes, if the station was worth re-opening, it would need escalators.
Like I said, don't hold your breath.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2006 14:14:17 GMT
All the signalling between Kings Cross and Caledonian Road would have to be altered with new overlaps calculated for stopping trains.
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