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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2005 21:16:48 GMT
WoodLanePhil's posts about the Central Line Sandite workings have me wondering about the special Sandite car that gets inserted into an A stock formation for the Met.
Does anyone know if the insertion happened yet, and if the train will be running soon?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2005 23:19:08 GMT
Someone recently told me that this is known as the RAT (Rail Adhesion Train). Is the Sandite car a converted A stock or something else?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2005 1:47:22 GMT
Someone recently told me that this is known as the RAT (Rail Adhesion Train). Is the Sandite car a converted A stock or something else? It is indeed called the RAT, and is a regular 4 car A60 double-ended unit with a converted A60 trailer car added to make a 5 car train. The extra car is stripped of compressors, seats, and some other internal stuff - to make room for the sandite equipment. In the autumn of 2003 I drove the RAT from Rickmansworth to Amersham with only the south end motor car working. 1 car pushing 5 (including the heavy Sandite car) so it was 20 mph max... and the resistance grids were GLOWING on the back DM when I got into Amersham Sidings! It hadn't got into full parallel all the way, so I coasted back to Ricky (downhill all the way) to cool it down. Old rolling stock is much more robust than the modern stuff, and that one DM got me back to Neasden Depot without 'dying' on the way!
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Post by citysig on Oct 15, 2005 8:36:18 GMT
The train has begun running, and is booked to run everyday until the end of December (later this year to coincide with timetable changes). Whether or not it runs on every single trip is more down to the weather and leaf-fall.
Cannot say for certain as I haven't seen it this year, but I would imagine the full 5-car set is running by now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2005 8:38:02 GMT
What time of day does it usually run?
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Post by citysig on Oct 15, 2005 15:16:34 GMT
It runs as the first train from Neasden depot - at around 0345hrs! From then it takes in the branches up north and then returns to depot to layover for the morning peak.
It then has a few more paths late morning before returning to depot around lunchtime. In the afternoon it leaves depot around 1440hrs and spends the rest of the afternoon "up north" in various locations, before returning to depot during the evening (after the peak).
Weekends it does it a bit differently.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2005 22:23:40 GMT
Cannot say for certain as I haven't seen it this year, but I would imagine the full 5-car set is running by now. This year it is only a 4 car set for some reason. For those of you that wish to know, the lucky numbers are: 5232, (6036), 6233, 5233.
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Post by Harsig on Oct 16, 2005 8:28:34 GMT
Cannot say for certain as I haven't seen it this year, but I would imagine the full 5-car set is running by now. This year it is only a 4 car set for some reason. For those of you that wish to know, the lucky numbers are: 5232, (6036), 6233, 5233. It was a four car last year as well If I remember correctly, although I think that was the first time.
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Post by citysig on Oct 16, 2005 17:03:44 GMT
And as I haven't seen it for at least 2 years (and even then I only saw it once) that explains my assumption.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2005 22:51:06 GMT
It was a four car last year as well If I remember correctly, although I think that was the first time. Correct. Its in the same formation this year.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2005 1:18:12 GMT
It was a four car last year as well If I remember correctly, although I think that was the first time. Correct. Its in the same formation this year. Must admit that, while writing my previous post, I did get a nagging doubt about the current length of the RAT... had a feeling I'd read somewhere that it was 4 cars long now. Well it was 5 cars long when I last drove it three 'autumns' ago!!
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Post by meteorological on Oct 24, 2005 10:30:19 GMT
Arrive at Neasden a couple of weeks ago, Saturday so so glad to be at work, prep the RAT, wait for the Train Tech and the stick to clear, wait a bit longer, a bit longer still, phone the depot manager (oxymoron) to be told it's cancelled isn't it, so after a bit of a conflab it was decided to cancel the RAT and have an early day, nice.
I was running it last year in the rain coming down from Amersham, towards the red signal, applied some brake, nothing, applied a bit more still no sign of us actually slowing down, bit more still nowt, emergency that did it, it is very very slippery on the Amersham road when it's raining in leaf fall, but the reason the train wouldn't stop is that the thing is just too light.
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Post by edb on Oct 24, 2005 11:28:37 GMT
Interesting. I remeber seeing it in the Uxbridge sidings and we couldn't understand what it was for. Is it for Ice or leaf fall? Does it just spray sand on the tracks?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2005 12:39:25 GMT
but the reason the train wouldn't stop is that the thing is just too light. Unlike the driver that was driving it at the time! *runs and hides, an plans a reverse off the platform at Amersham to heal the wounds*
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 24, 2005 20:24:53 GMT
Interesting. I remeber seeing it in the Uxbridge sidings and we couldn't understand what it was for. Is it for Ice or leaf fall? Does it just spray sand on the tracks? It's not for ice - some designated normal service trains carry de-icing equipment, and all service trains have sleet brushes (except the W&C line - don't know about Victoria line). The rail adhesion train is for leaf fall on the Met, and puts down a sticky mixture which includes sand (to improve grip) and fine pieces of metal (to assist the track circuits). It only runs between October and December, and AFAIK, is supposed to follow the Network Rail water cannon train (where scheduled).
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Oct 24, 2005 21:19:59 GMT
Interesting. I remeber seeing it in the Uxbridge sidings and we couldn't understand what it was for. Is it for Ice or leaf fall? Does it just spray sand on the tracks? It's not for ice - some designated normal service trains carry de-icing equipment, and all service trains have sleet brushes (except the W&C line - don't know about Victoria line). The rail adhesion train is for leaf fall on the Met, and puts down a sticky mixture which includes sand (to improve grip) and fine pieces of metal (to assist the track circuits). It only runs between October and December, and AFAIK, is supposed to follow the Network Rail water cannon train (where scheduled). Oh dear - have you got that JCB handy again? ;D De-icing is incorrectly named as it is actually anti-icing, in that it won't get rid of ice that has formed, but should prevent ice from forming, provided the fluid is laid correctly. Not all service trains have sleet brushes. Although all D stock trains have sleet brushes, C stock only have sleet brushes fitted to 'de-icing' units Not sure about other stocks, but I would guess that sleet brushes are only fitted to 'de-icing' units on older stock than the D stock as well
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Post by citysig on Oct 25, 2005 0:54:55 GMT
None of which works (even the de-icing which does occur) if the trains leave depot without any fluid in the tanks. It works even less when said fluid is replaced with ordinary water. The early hours of an icy morning mean the trains then turn into "Icing Trains." Of course this has never happened... well not in the last year.... well not in the last few months anyway
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Post by Colin on Oct 25, 2005 3:03:56 GMT
Oh dear - have you got that JCB handy again? ;D The JCB is broken at the moment due to over use ;D ;D ;D Thanks for the corrections though None of which works (even the de-icing which does occur) if the trains leave depot without any fluid in the tanks. It works even less when said fluid is replaced with ordinary water. The early hours of an icy morning mean the trains then turn into "Icing Trains." Of course this has never happened... well not in the last year.... well not in the last few months anyway Well, we've been warned that a 'bad winter' is on the way - be interesting to see if it's 'good service' on all lines ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2005 10:38:26 GMT
It works even less when said fluid is replaced with ordinary water. The early hours of an icy morning mean the trains then turn into "Icing Trains." Mmm... icing trains - tasty! ;D
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Post by citysig on Oct 25, 2005 21:58:33 GMT
Well, we've been warned that a 'bad winter' is on the way - be interesting to see if it's 'good service' on all lines ;D Err no. We've been "warned" of a cold winter. Such a strange weather event I thought I would never live to see the day of a cold winter ;D It's only the media that have turned what will be a cold snap into the next ice age.
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Post by Colin on Oct 26, 2005 3:43:25 GMT
Perhaps what I said was worded in such a way that you misunderstood my point.
The 'media' has made it known that because of the effects of Global warming, this winter will be one of the coldest and wettest we have ever seen. This, IMHO, should be interpreted as; (non heated) points freezing more often, thicker ice on conducter rails, thicker ice on running rails, electrics (ie signals and cables) failing more often due to water ingress/damp, more doors freezing closed, more incidences of flooding, etc, etc. Past history points to the fact that our railways seem to be exceptionally bad at coping with weather extremes.
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Post by citysig on Oct 26, 2005 4:37:50 GMT
I doubt it will be any more extreme than in any other year. The snow will no doubt arrive either in late November or mid-January as it does most winters. I doubt we will see a winter anywhere close to those years ago, with snow laying around for weeks on end.
But I do know where you're coming from. The failures and the like could be lengthened or worsened. Mind you, this summer was neither particularly wet, dry or warm, and yet the usual summer problems were encountered.
We have numerous minor problems that become evident when the temperature exceeds 22C. Most of us know that regardless of the weather, these matters won't be fixed by anything less than a change of attitude by those holding the money. Deciding at 0300hrs on a cold night to run trains filled with water (as mentioned above) and then wondering why the problems became worse, is just one of the ways the current infracos are looking after the railway.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2005 19:28:51 GMT
Yesterday I saw the train leaving Neasden at the 1440 departure. Strangely enough, it was soon followed by the Track Recording Train (from the Jubilee to the Met Main UP Slow), the RAT was on the UP Fast.
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Post by citysig on Oct 26, 2005 21:43:40 GMT
This morning it left depot over an hour late. The driver apparently just didn't want to take it A replacement (driver) was found later, and the train ran more or less as booked - albeit an hour late.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2005 21:01:07 GMT
Network Rail water cannon train Oh rubbish now this is something I've got to see.
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 6, 2005 17:40:04 GMT
It works even less when said fluid is replaced with ordinary water. !!! Is this some form of cost cutting?
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