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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2007 20:31:36 GMT
when london overground bring in the new plastic fantastic class 378 what will happen to the 313's?  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2007 20:47:52 GMT
The 313s will remain in front-line use with LO until the Electrostar knockoffs arrive. What happens to them after that is anybody's guess - the smart decision would be to turn them over to FCC to lengthen their 313-based services and provide the flexibility to increase the late-night service to Moorgate via the Northern City line.
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Post by c5 on Nov 19, 2007 21:09:19 GMT
I'm guessing that they're are still the property of the ROSCO's and they will do whatever with them. Whereas the new trains have been procured and will be owned by TfL.
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Post by cetacean on Nov 19, 2007 21:22:12 GMT
A handful of them are almost certainly destined for FCC, to increase the peak and off-peak frequency. But otherwise scrapping is a real possibility, given their age.
The lack of evening service on the Northern City is due to the cost of keeping it open. How would extra units help?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2007 23:04:21 GMT
Right now, services finish at 21.50, well before the ending of many events at the Barbican. Extra 313s for FCC to play with might allow them to increase services so that they finish after the ending of the aforementioned events.
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Post by londonboy on Nov 19, 2007 23:38:55 GMT
Right now, services finish at 21.50, well before the ending of many events at the Barbican. Extra 313s for FCC to play with might allow them to increase services so that they finish after the ending of the aforementioned events. When did the service get extended by an hour I always remember the line closing at 20:50 or so |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2007 0:49:44 GMT
A handful of them are almost certainly destined for FCC, to increase the peak and off-peak frequency. But otherwise scrapping is a real possibility, given their age. Age? 30 years isn't really life expired, surely? There are still some appaling railbus type units in use in Northern England that could be replaced by 313s. |
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Post by dazz285 on Nov 20, 2007 8:53:26 GMT
I've been told that 313101 will be going to York Railway museum. Seems odd though that Tfl are only getting the same amount of 378's as there are 313's, or am I missing something?
Dazz285
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Post by cetacean on Nov 20, 2007 9:42:50 GMT
Right now, services finish at 21.50, well before the ending of many events at the Barbican. Extra 313s for FCC to play with might allow them to increase services so that they finish after the ending of the aforementioned events. But there are enough units to run the service before 10. Why do you think there aren't afterwards? The trains still run, but to King's Cross, and usually there are a load of 313s sitting in the platforms there. So there are plenty of units available to run a service to Moorgate, if they wanted to. adw: Very few lines up north are electrified, so 313s are useless. Due to the Thameslink/Crossrail/LO/etc new builds there's going to be lots of electric stock floating around with nowhere to go, so I wouldn't be surprised if some gets scrapped. dazz285: I think it's likely more will be ordered in future, but if not the transfer of the Watford line to the Bakerloo will help, as will the possible use of diesels on the WLL (ie Clapham-Barking, though I'm not sure if this plan is still a goer). Also, the new stock should be more reliable, so the timetable can assume a higher number in service. |
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Post by metman on Nov 20, 2007 11:32:24 GMT
I certainly expect the 313s to got to FCC, 9 car trains in the peak periods wouldn't be a bad idea. I wouldn't count out their use on the Thameslink2000 services either-after all they were the prototype dual voltage trains.
As for age, they aren't that old and I personally quite like them so I hope they are floating around for a few years yet!
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Post by dazz285 on Nov 20, 2007 11:49:42 GMT
As for age, they aren't that old and I personally quite like them so I hope they are floating around for a few years yet! You try spending upto 4 hours in those cabs. The seats are claped out and the seals around the doors keep on wearing out causing a draught and noise... Roll bars are very noisey until treated... Water leaks down the windscreens and various other gaps in the bodywork.. Roll on the 378's Dazz285 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2007 12:31:09 GMT
You try spending upto 4 hours in those cabs. The seats are claped out and the seals around the doors keep on wearing out causing a draught and noise... Roll bars are very noisey until treated... Water leaks down the windscreens and various other gaps in the bodywork.. Sounds like C stock! |
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Post by cetacean on Nov 20, 2007 13:53:31 GMT
Few of the stations they call at can take more than 6 cars. The Northern City certainly can't.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2007 22:11:49 GMT
As for age, they aren't that old and I personally quite like them so I hope they are floating around for a few years yet! You try spending upto 4 hours in those cabs. The seats are claped out and the seals around the doors keep on wearing out causing a draught and noise... Roll bars are very noisey until treated... Water leaks down the windscreens and various other gaps in the bodywork.. Roll on the 378's Dazz285 Oh they aint that bad Dazza ;D ;D At least you have a person like me to chat to at turnround points which wll be highly unlikely when the new trains come in. So make the most of them whilst you can including your vunerable Guard. I do agree with you about the the roll bars bloody noise they make not good when your on a unit for 5 hours at a time. With regard their use elsewhere, i dont think these units will see further service, they are life expired and are not rested like those on FCC. An average useage for a LOROL 313 is around 18 hours a day with the majority of it spent on intensified workings with severe overcrowding during the peak and at certain times off peak. Something they wasnt designed for when built in 1975. On the other hand the FCC units do spend a certain amount of time out of service during the day, therefore reducing the wear and tear that the LOROL units get. Such a pity that 313101 had the mods done would have been better to have not refurbed this if it was destine for the NRM. I dont think that FCC are really that interested in running a service on the Moorgate branch, something that has baffled me for years is that they dont run at the weekends, and especially since Arsenal moved to the Ashburton Grove ground, It seems strange that with all the problems of transport in the area the two nearest (Holloway Road and Drayton Park ) stations are closed on matchdays, can understand Holloway Road but not Drayton Park. This leaves Finsbury Park, Arsenal and Highbury and Islington suffering from Crowd control problems. But eh ive digressed a bit so will end it there. Keithy At the back of Dazzas train. |
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Post by trc666 on Nov 21, 2007 6:11:19 GMT
Drayton Park does have a fairly narrow platform though. I suppose a second platform could be built on the NB side, with the existing island becoming southbound only.
Personally I would also have a second match day-only ticket office on the new footbridge (that leads to the Emirates itself) with stairs and a lift leading down to the new platform (making the station DDA compliant) and existing island platform.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2007 19:35:57 GMT
In theory, some platforms could be built on the site of the old depot... then perhaps have a stairway/lift leading directly up onto the Emirates bridge. open match days only.
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Post by trc666 on Nov 22, 2007 0:29:40 GMT
My idea is based on having a platform on the former depot side, the NB track would have a platform either side of it but doors would only open on the new platform side, not the existing island, that would be used for southbound trains. Are you suggesting a bay platform? You could instead replace the trailing crossover at the Hertford end with a scissors so both platforms can be used for reversal at weekends when matches are on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2007 21:02:41 GMT
I was thinking about some bay yes, acessed from the Hertford/Finsbury ends. But then perhaps having acess also, possibly via a single spur from the Moorgate end, might allow a greater degree in flexibility, should the existing island become unavailable for one reason or another... The 'new' platform would probably have to be placed further towards Finsbury to allow access for point work etc at the Moorgate end... because there ain't much space from the tunnel mouth to the existing platform ramp!
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Post by DrOne on Nov 26, 2007 23:53:03 GMT
I dont think that FCC are really that interested in running a service on the Moorgate branch, something that has baffled me for years is that they dont run at the weekends Especially since it's such a good link! Granted the majority of traffic for the city is very peak-heavy but considering you can change for two lines to Kings Cross at Fins Pk and again at Highbury you'd have thought there was more of a need to keep the Moorgate service on for longer. It's also just easier for customers if you know a line always goes to the same place all the time. The line has always seemed to me like a good one for Ken to get his hands on as it can easily be segregated from the rest of the GN/East Coast ML, especially once Thameslink swallows all the Peterborough/Cambridge services. |
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Post by superteacher on Nov 26, 2007 23:59:43 GMT
When it was first transferred to BR, the line had an all day, every day service. But demand in the evenings and weekend was very low in the 70's and 80's, and so the service was cut. The only concession back was making the evening service run one hour later a few years ago. Admittedly, the line was empty in the evenings and weekends. However, I think that there is now a case for re-opening, due to:
Increased traffic on the system generally.
The Emirates Stadium near Drayton Park.
The tranformation of the Old Street area into a a bustling night life spot. I was brought up around Old Street in the 70's and 80's, and it was like a morgue in the evenings. What a difference now!
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Post by DrOne on Nov 27, 2007 12:22:29 GMT
From the London TravelWatch Response to the ECML RUS consultation: Option 1.1 – Extension of all inner suburban peak services to six-car
This is a basic essential first step and work should start now to arrange for the transfer and refurbishment of Class 313 units as soon as they can be released from the London Overground. However, as the draft RUS analysis states, this measure will not be sufficient to meet passenger growth on its own.
Option 1.5 – Run trains to/ from Moorgate after 2200 on weekdays and at weekends
In principle London TravelWatch supports the concept of consistent patterns of train service throughout the week, and that all stations should have 7-day services.
In this specific case, however, the pros and cons are quite complex. Moreover, the issues are changing with, on the one hand, the forthcoming introduction of new passenger facilities and services at St Pancras, and on the other the development of much improved London Overground links at Highbury & Islington.
For the weekends these are issues which need to be discussed with a wide range of stakeholders, supported by passenger research to identify journey patterns and preferences. It is likely that any change would be more readily accepted if it was part of a package including higher frequency services.
However for weekday evenings, when the Moorgate service has recently been successfully extended to run up to 2200, the level of activity in the City and around Old Street is such that there appears to be a strong case for a further extension to the normal close of traffic. Goes with what Superteacher was saying. Old Street, the interchanges at Highbury and the Emirates stadium provide a significant case for extending the service. A 5 min frequency (10 for each northern branch) could be the boost that is needed to uncover the demand. Sounds like a good candidate for LO marketing/branding?  |
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Post by metman on Apr 24, 2008 17:12:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2008 13:25:28 GMT
I doubt that all of the 313s from LOROL will go to FCC. Might some go to Merseyrail?
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2008 20:51:29 GMT
I doubt that all of the 313s from LOROL will go to FCC. Might some go to Merseyrail? I very much doubt it Somersetchris, after all we have got 3 former and long term storage Merseyrail 508s. |
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Post by metman on May 1, 2008 22:42:38 GMT
I guess the three 508s will go up north for spares etc.
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 21, 2008 3:06:43 GMT
In the latest issue of Modern Railways Magazine, FCC have confirmed they will be taking seven of the ex LO 313s [Once the 378s are in service] to combat overcrowding on the inner surburban GN routes.
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 21, 2008 5:57:48 GMT
A handful of them are almost certainly destined for FCC, to increase the peak and off-peak frequency. But otherwise scrapping is a real possibility, given their age. Age? 30 years isn't really life expired, surely? There are still some appaling railbus type units in use in Northern England that could be replaced by 313s. Actually pacers are used all over the country. However, they couldn't be replaced by the 313's for the simple reason that there is no OHLE on most routes! |
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Post by compsci on Aug 21, 2008 6:07:39 GMT
A FCC director told me that the interiors will be totally refurbished before they get anywhere near service as they wouldn't want to inflict such dire conditions on their passengers (as opposed to passengers inflicting it on themselves by jamming themselves in).
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Post by astock5000 on Aug 21, 2008 7:58:41 GMT
we have got 3 former and long term storage Merseyrail 508s. Will the 508s be replaced before the 313s? It would make sense, because 508s can only be used on the Watford - Euston service. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2008 10:10:33 GMT
A FCC director told me that the interiors will be totally refurbished before they get anywhere near service as they wouldn't want to inflict such dire conditions on their passengers (as opposed to passengers inflicting it on themselves by jamming themselves in). In other words, put in the high back seats and change the colours to First Group. No way would FCC let their passengers see such a dire livery which is not their own.  |
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