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Post by mandgc on Aug 22, 2007 0:07:06 GMT
It is generally expected on Subway and Suburban Lines that at busy times some passengers will have to stand between certain stations. A rough guide for busy periods could be the number of standing passengers in relation to the number of seats provided.
On the various systems around the world what is this relationship at busy times and when would the train be considered 'crammed full' ?
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Post by pakenhamtrain on Aug 22, 2007 3:02:01 GMT
I think it is when there is no standing and sitting space left and passengers cannot board the train.
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Post by tubeprune on Aug 22, 2007 7:48:06 GMT
On the various systems around the world what is this relationship at busy times and when would the train be considered 'crammed full' ? Crammed full is what is usually called "crush" load. Seating/standing capacity is calculated individually by each administration according to capacity requirements, local standards, custom and practice. If it's an existing line, it will develop as it has in London. If it's a new line, the planners will estimate the expected traffic at the peaks and design accordingly. The number of seats will depend on the type of service and the length of journey. Network South East set 20 minutes as the target maximum standing time for peak hour travel. The increase in traffic in the UK has meant that this is sometimes often exceeded. On metro systems, the largest proportion of journeys are less than 10 minutes, so seats are not considered as important as they are on suburban routes. London Underground is an awkward mix of metro and suburban. The inner sections are urban, the outer ones suburban. This is what makes design for train capacity so difficult. This is why the S Stock seating has been changed from the originally planned layout where all trains would be the same to making the seating in the 7-car trains all longitudinal. There still might be changes before the final design is fixed. Standing capacity is calculated as number of passengers per m 2. In London the engineering design is based on 8/m 2 at doorway areas and 6/m 2 between the doors. For journey time capability purposes, it is calculated at 7/m 2. Of course, in reality it would never get much above 5/m 2. In your calculation, you also have to allow for the floor space in front of seats to be occupied by the feet of seated passengers (300mm). In Hong Kong, engineering design capacity is 10/m 2 and crush capacity is 8/m 2. Sometimes they get close to this but the tolerance level there is higher than ours, although is is reducing. Capacity will also be affected by a load factor - not all the train will be loaded evenly. These factors vary widely. I have seen them between 50% and 85% around the world. Most of this is described in my website here: www.railway-technical.com/tr-ops.shtml#Train-Service-Planning |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 8:34:32 GMT
Tolerance in Hong Kong is high for sure, but what about India with all its hanging-out passengers?
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Post by Chris W on Aug 22, 2007 16:09:47 GMT
I dread to think what the injury.. let alone railway death rate is like  |
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Post by mandgc on Aug 23, 2007 6:06:06 GMT
Thank you, Tubeprune, for your Website. Looks interesting !
I don't think the Indian method would work very well in London or other subways ! :-)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2007 12:57:42 GMT
Hardly. One would think HK designs would be the moral limit.
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