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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2007 13:44:24 GMT
for the last 3 weeks i have got on about 7/8 buses that have broken oyster readers. i mean thats great for me as i save money but surely tfl must lose loads of money?? but the funny thing is it always seems to be in hot weather!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2007 13:47:40 GMT
I have also seen an increase in the number out of use at stations too...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2007 14:17:28 GMT
If all Oysters fail then what happens on the bendy? Can one enter the back door and cheat fares? Fare cheating is an age old tradition (example: using iron washers instead of coins for the CLR 'pullbar' ticket machines)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2007 15:56:32 GMT
People used to do the same on the NY Subway...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2007 19:45:18 GMT
well on our bendys they have a lot more inspectors! but when the oysters dont scan and inspectors get on and the real fair cheaters get away with it! like the ones that get on the back door of a normal bus when the driver doesnt open the front!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2007 20:00:44 GMT
exactly you should see the c11's nearly every one i go on has a broken oyster reader and most people take advantage of it no wonder tfl are loosing money!
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 7, 2007 20:05:43 GMT
They sound about as reliable as our ticket machines, which are near constantly "broken" (apart from trips where the inspector is on board).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2007 20:09:59 GMT
Just like the National Rail TVM's; nearly always have no change in them, and even the ticket office ones are rubbish... Bring back APTIS and PORTIS, or even edmonsons. Simplicity at its best!
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 7, 2007 20:14:54 GMT
The NR machines are useless - they don't allow you to print railcard tickets. So you have to stand in a queue full of people who don't have a clue what ticket they want or where they're going, when you know *exactly* what you need, you just need to give the money over and have it printed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2007 20:23:50 GMT
What gets me is that you cannot buy a RAILCARD itself from the machine, you have to fill in an app form... I'm sure there could be software added on to enable the machine to accept personal data. SE Trains recently updated their machines so that you can buy a ticket in advance, but only after 19.15 hrs... How stupid can you get? These machies, by Schiedt & Bachmann, appear to have nearly all stations programmed into them, but some when selected say 'No fares available for this destination'...
Okay fine.
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Post by cetacean on Aug 7, 2007 20:27:30 GMT
Most NR ticket machines do railcard discounts. I think it's only certain TOCs at certain times of day where the option is disabled.
How would a machine check your photo? They could certainly do renewals, though.
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 7, 2007 20:32:51 GMT
As I have a 39 minute connection at Retford, I've taken to buying tomorrow's ticket then, which saves messing around the next morning. Machine won't sell it, so queue up. There's only one window, can sometimes be quite a queue, I always let people who're buying a ticket for today in front though - seems fair enough if their ticket is needed for 10 minutes and mine is needed in 23 hours that they should get theirs first! There's a rather dozy clerk who's sometimes on. The other day, something like this happened. Me : "Hello, I'd like a standard day single from Doncaster to Gainsborough Lea Road with a Young Person's Railcard, traveling tomorrow please". >click< >clatter< >clatter< Her : "Eight twenty please" Me : "No, I'd like it with a Young Person's Railcard please" Her : "Oh ok, what time are you travelling?" Me : "Tomorrow, at 0719" Her : "You can't have a Young Person's ticket then, they're not valid until 9am" Me : "Not normally, but this is July and August when they are valid" Her : >looks it up in a booklet< "Oh yes you're right" >clatter< "£2.20 then please" Me : "But that's the fare from Retford" Her : "Oh yeah >clatter< >brrrr< Five fourty, please" So I hand over £5.40 and get the ticket back. Dated for today. Me : "Excuse me, this ticket is for today, I asked for it tomorrow" Her : "Oh, sorry" >clatter< >brrrr< "That's Doncaster to Gainsborough Lea Road for tomorrow with a Young Person's Railcard". Only took her the five attempts  . |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2007 20:32:58 GMT
Most NR ticket machines do railcard discounts. I think it's only certain TOCs at certain times of day where the option is disabled. How would a machine check your photo? They could certainly do renewals, though. Small scanner, and ability to input your railcard number... you can upload a photo online when applying for a railcard, so why not on a machine? Sounds like your having fun with the TOV's, TC!!!  |
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 7, 2007 20:33:37 GMT
How would a machine check your photo? That's what grippers are for on trains, isn't it? To sell tickets and check pre-paid ones. |
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Post by cetacean on Aug 7, 2007 21:59:26 GMT
I meant they need to check your identity and your eligibility when you buy a railcard for the first time, don't they? Grippers certainly can't demand proof you're a student or whatever.
(I'm not sure how this works when you buy online, but they ask for passport/driver's license details as if they're doing some kind of check)
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 7, 2007 22:51:19 GMT
Bring back<snippety-snip> edmonsons. Simplicity at its best! Couldn't agree more, back in the day when I was a regular booking clerk (admittedly as a volunteer) I could book tickets every 34 seconds AND get both ends of the ticket dated with the right change to the punters - alright it's only a small rack with 112 varieties of tickets. Thems with thermal printers don't know they're born! ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2007 7:45:18 GMT
what makes me laugh is that when on the train with a young persons railcard ticket and the inspector comes along on all the trains ive used it on and thats over 50 they have never asked to look at it.
another thing is that you can buy a normal travelcard on a YPR so when you go through the underground stations no one really checks it because you just go through the gates which can give some teens the idea of just purchasing the ticket and no card which you can do at some of the non staffed stations at a ticket machine. even on the buses they never check it properly.
the kids at my school used to amend the dates on old travelcards and you could blatently see it had been tampered with and the bus drivers didnt even notice.
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 8, 2007 9:04:46 GMT
One thing I've noticed when down south is they don't grip the trains very often. However some stations down there have LU-style ticket gates, and most have a manned ticket office. Up here you're lucky if the station is manned, many just have a machine which is inevitably broken or won't sell the right ticket, so you have to buy a ticket on the train.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2007 10:41:40 GMT
Bring back<snippety-snip> edmonsons. Simplicity at its best! Couldn't agree more, back in the day when I was a regular booking clerk (admittedly as a volunteer) I could book tickets every 34 seconds AND get both ends of the ticket dated with the right change to the punters - alright it's only a small rack with 112 varieties of tickets. Thems with thermal printers don't know they're born! ;D ;D ;D Make them slightly larger. Have the following Adult and Concession Singles (Zone 1 incl. and Zone 1 not incl.), Returns (Zone 1 incl. and Zone 1 not incl.), Weeklies, One-days and Three-days (all unlimited) Hence there will only be fourteen types of ticket, vastly simplifying the complex ticketing system. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2007 11:49:47 GMT
ive noticed at brondesbury br new ticket barriers have been put in place with covers that say oyster comming soon if you ask me about time to!
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Post by Colin on Aug 8, 2007 19:20:47 GMT
another thing is that you can buy a normal travelcard on a YPR so when you go through the underground stations no one really checks it because you just go through the gates which can give some teens the idea of just purchasing the ticket and no card which you can do at some of the non staffed stations at a ticket machine. even on the buses they never check it properly. the kids at my school used to amend the dates on old travelcards and you could blatently see it had been tampered with and the bus drivers didnt even notice. I'd just like to mention that some discounted tickets do actually show a code on the barrier - though it has been some years now since I last manned a barrier. Certainly 'child' tickets are easy to spot. I have to defend bus drivers here [as a former one myself] - most passengers don't the give the driver a chance to see the the ticket. It's flashed past the eyes at such a high velocity that drivers are lucky if they can tell it's even a ticket let alone the details on it. There is a giveaway with these too though - in the nano seconds that bus drivers are usually allowed to see a ticket, the way it is held will provide all information that is needed...............you know, finger over the date, etc. Whilst the are many negatives with Oyster, there are some positives; I won't say never, but it is almost certainly impossible to alter the date and such like. For now at least anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2007 19:37:06 GMT
another thing is that you can buy a normal travelcard on a YPR so when you go through the underground stations no one really checks it because you just go through the gates which can give some teens the idea of just purchasing the ticket and no card which you can do at some of the non staffed stations at a ticket machine. even on the buses they never check it properly. the kids at my school used to amend the dates on old travelcards and you could blatently see it had been tampered with and the bus drivers didnt even notice. I'd just like to mention that some discounted tickets do actually show a code on the barrier - though it has been some years now since I last manned a barrier. Certainly 'child' tickets are easy to spot. I have to defend bus drivers here [as a former one myself] - most passengers don't the give the driver a chance to see the the ticket. It's flashed past the eyes at such a high velocity that drivers are lucky if they can tell it's even a ticket let alone the details on it. There is a giveaway with these too though - in the nano seconds that bus drivers are usually allowed to see a ticket, the way it is held will provide all information that is needed...............you know, finger over the date, etc. Whilst the are many negatives with Oyster, there are some positives; I won't say never, but it is almost certainly impossible to alter the date and such like. For now at least anyway. well i was saying when i was at school, which was 4 years ago! now they are more strict like if your oyster doesnt scan they make you come back or toss you off the bus! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2007 20:14:01 GMT
I think with the MFM's too, when you buy a child ticket, the screen changes colour also...
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Post by trc666 on Aug 8, 2007 20:34:19 GMT
I'd just like to mention that some discounted tickets do actually show a code on the barrier - though it has been some years now since I last manned a barrier. Certainly 'child' tickets are easy to spot. The barriers actually show 'Child' on the screen, so it is fairly obvious. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 8, 2007 22:17:50 GMT
Don't LU AFC barriers make a whistling noise when a child ticket goes through?
A lot of drivers don't seem to care, the other day I got on a bus with my travelpass (pre-paid pass so I don't pay fares on the bus) which is in the same blue wallet as a child pass, so before looking at the pass the driver saw the holder and printed a 40p ticket - he wasn't happy when he saw he didn't have to do one.
On the train to Sheffield today, the guard didn't check tickets at all after Doncaster, and the train stopped at 5 other stations, of which 1 is staffed and 1 has a ticket machine, the rest have nothing. And they complain about lost revenue?
As for the Oysters, nothing is impossible - if people put their minds to it, I'm sure it could be done.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2007 20:44:39 GMT
Don't LU AFC barriers make a whistling noise when a child ticket goes through? A lot of drivers don't seem to care, the other day I got on a bus with my travelpass (pre-paid pass so I don't pay fares on the bus) which is in the same blue wallet as a child pass, so before looking at the pass the driver saw the holder and printed a 40p ticket - he wasn't happy when he saw he didn't have to do one. On the train to Sheffield today, the guard didn't check tickets at all after Doncaster, and the train stopped at 5 other stations, of which 1 is staffed and 1 has a ticket machine, the rest have nothing. And they complain about lost revenue? As for the Oysters, nothing is impossible - if people put their minds to it, I'm sure it could be done. I guess the bus driver was unhappy because of the amount of forms he would have to fill in the justify the refunded ticket. I've been on a journey from London Victoria to Canterbury... takes about 1h40m... Not one ticket check made, and this was mid evening, and the train was very busy. I'm sure somebody is working on a way to clone oyster!!! |
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 9, 2007 20:57:00 GMT
I think they have to fill in an "Annulment Form" or something, otherwise they're 40p down. Which balanced with the amount up they are through tickets not issued...
Don't SRDC stations all have ticket machines and ticket gates though?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2007 20:58:52 GMT
L. Vic has gates... Canterbury has gates, but when I got to the latter, they were open - no-one about!
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Post by Chris M on Aug 9, 2007 23:04:02 GMT
I've been on a journey from London Victoria to Canterbury... takes about 1h40m... Not one ticket check made, and this was mid evening, and the train was very busy. My ticket is only checked on about half the journeys I make between Yatton and London, regardless of the time of day. Bristol TM, Reading and Paddington have gates. At Bristol TM you can usually get out by just showing a ticket, when the barriers are not open, of the connecting stations only Bristol Parkway has barriers. I've never exited at Reading, but Paddington is normally easy to circumvent the barriers - they are only there for platforms 2-5, and even for these platforms you can exit via the bridge to the H&C (sometimes there is a human checking tickets there, but not always). I'm sure somebody is working on a way to clone oyster!!! I'm sure that it will be possible, as even a fairly cheap RFID reader can read the unique number on it - my Oyster also gets me entry to the computer society room at Swansea University! |
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 10, 2007 0:09:09 GMT
Canterbury has gates, but when I got to the latter, they were open - no-one about! The gates at Canterbury have a particular dislike of priv. NR tickets. SEEK ASSISTANCE SEEK ASSISTANCE SEEK ASSISTANCE. Why? I'm travelling on a perfectly valid ticket, that fact it's a Priv should make no difference. |
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