Hi johnb, re: your post #10 above.
Addressing your second, middle, point first,
Quote:
The prepayment element, (currently preferred minimum £20 a go) must be a nice little interest-earning cash hoard on someone's annual accounts; Fairly sure this goes to TfL, and that it's relatively minimal compared to the levels of cash-up-front you get from a season ticket...I suggest there is a difference. A season ticket implies a discount from the daily fare that includes a benefit incentive to buy it based on the discounted cash value of payments up front for services to be provided in the future. Accountants are usually familiar with the concept of discounted cash flow, and auditors - if they are any good - should be sh*t hot on preventing a business taking into account receipts as profits which will incur expenses in providing the contracted services after the accounting reporting date.
Imposing Oyster however, seems (just IMHO from my recent researches on the Web) to be TfL deliberately increasing fares as a financial penalty to encourage fuller use of Oyster.
This brings up several points NOT associated with season ticket holders.
1. Why is Oyster so shy, as I posted.
2. Who indeed gets the benefit of the prepaid funds, as only quite extensive accountancy work is necessary to "estimate" the prepaid amount at the Accounting Dates.
(I'd mention here a similar problem that has tasked the Royal Mail for many years..... how many stamps have people bought and not yet used? There is a big difference in a service like that compared with say, the annual subscription to a Gym, Fitness Centre or Club, where the prepaid amount can fairly safely be estimated on a time basis.)
3. Oyster penalises and causes confusion to tourists and irregular travellers. (The £3 "deposit" ? )
4. Once hooked, the prepaid amount can be upped - currently the choice is in £20 or £40 increments, and variable up to much higher.
As an aside resulting from this, I guess TfL are aiming to abolish season tickets by the "back door". I'll tell you how. Put £1,000 in electronically transferred funds into your Oyster Card, and your Oyster Card will be credited with a premium - £ 1,100.
A study of the logistics behind LU fare enforcement clearly shows the season ticket is a real pain in the ar*e compared with Oyster.
(From the admin. viewpoint.)
5. Oyster is arguably an intrusion into one's personal freedom and liberties. In the Public interest, it is not appropriate to go much further on this point here, as I trust the Moderators would agree.
6, and a bit more...
To address the first and third of your replies together.
1. GBP19 million , yeah, and the rest !!!
2. "which was far too early" - Sir, I think you made a typo there, you intended to say it was far too late?
However, that agreed as not in dispute, Oyster jumped the gun by being the first kid in the block hence my comments re: history showing that is not always best.
3. And how can your quoted Press Release be based on proper research when it appears no-one involved with Oyster is "openly" being associated with ITSO - as of my web research of members right up to date?
4. Indeed your quote:
"A deal that will help London's rail passengers get the full benefit of Oyster cards and lay the foundations for a nationally accepted smartcard ticketing scheme has been struck."
is the most awful spinning and carp I've actually already researched. It is parochial and offensive. It implies the foundations of a nationally accepted smartcard ticketing scheme has just been struck depending on London's Oyster user passengers.
One merely has to study the effort that LT/LU went to in introducing the first principles of automatic fare ticketing / enforcement - the timescale, and the expense - on its own specialised operation, let alone combining with many HUNDREDS of other similar operations each of unique problems and situations, like LU, to evolve a Nationally acceptable scheme.
At least in the "good old days", the Treasury got any benefits to offset what it paid out.
Your own quotation suggests conspiracy, secrecy, and "the rich getting richer..." because there is little credibility where stealth taxes are created claiming "green issues", global warming, congestion restriction, and ultimate benefits in
adequate replacement public transport, where from Clamping to creaming off the profits in a mandatory ticketing policy, all the indications are of secret deals and unjust enrichment, claiming "commercial and/or operational confidentiality" or similar.
Not being political, but just observing the timescale over the last 15 years - yeah! The Conservatives might have started down the slippery slope. But in 10 years, New Labour propelled the bob-sleigh to get its full momentum down the slippery slope, then jumped aboard.
5.
"The decision facing TfL was either to delay the whole project until the talking shop was finished talking, or to go ahead with a partially-compatible sytem. They decided the latter."Another headache is if this will be sorted out before the 2012 Olympics? (OK, tens of millions of London Passengers between today and then also might warrant a little bit of consideration as well.
)
"partially-compatible system" - OK, so please point out to me relevant web links to determine where Oyster states policy of being in any way compatible with a National Ticketing and Payment policy, and I'll gladly look it up and compare dates.
I accept Oyster has its merits. BUT one has to go back to the technology of the 1950's and 1960's and the LU staffing problem to understand the concepts LU introduced in the Victoria Line and that have subsequently been rehashed into the birth of Oyster, over fare revenue enforcement and fraudulent/evasion of paying fares, to even start to assess the implications whether "
the cost savings generated by the extra years' running of Oyster."
figure in the TOTAL figures.
6. I have recently read and researched enough inconsistencies in the practicalities of the Oyster card "scientific basis how it works" to have considerable reservations myself that it is secure. Especially as it is proposed to be a ready substitute for cash. And especially as hand-held equipment can be used to validate transactions with it.
Trust me. One day a well-researched scam will result in a pair of plain-clothes "bogus" ticket inspectors (aawwww, bu**er this PC c**p about Revenue Protection Officers
) will collect 200+ lots of personal details in 5 minutes between two stations on a fairly well crowded train, and all hell will break loose. A few days later, when bank and credit card balances are investigated by their owners.
I accept some people here might look upon this contribution as worthy only of the "rant" threads here.
OK. But I assure you it is not intended as such. I am essentially conservative with a small "c" and not in any way wishing to be political nor offensive.
I am just stating my own humble opinion, with respect to this Forum on which I am a guest, albeit privileged to contribute, and welcome further discussion on the subject.
There are certain problems in "politics" - namely an acceptable COMPROMISE between state control / communist theory / nationalisation, ___ AND ___ capitalism, free enterprise, reward for effort.
IMHO, the consequences of short term political decisions made in the last 40 years or so are really hitting us in the face right now and seriously affecting us as the citizens who elected those governments. And it is only going to get worse from now onwards.
I try to be optimistic. I just wish our politicians would look further than their next re-election campaigns, and make the effort to co-ordinate a PROPER public transport policy. And then sort out the other little luxuries our lives depend upon, like housing, food, heat, light and power, .....
cheers,
OngarParkNRide
