Cattletrain

This evening's London Evening subStandard has a reference to joining its petition:
www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23383607-details/Sign+our+petition+for+a+fair+deal+on+overcrowded+trains/article.do

It seems to concentrate on South West Trains out of Waterloo/Clapham Junction, demanding that railways companies provide longer trains and platforms to reduce overcrowding as well as more regular services.

I remember that in the 1980's I watched a programme as part of my Environmental Studies GCSE regaining the expansion/increase in lanes on the M25. In it a police office made a very accurate prediction. As many lanes as you add to a motorway, there will be a continuous supply for cars/traffic to fill it. Using this accurate and proven train of thought, is providing more and longer trains going to repeat this pattern. Also wouldn't the provision of additional trains increase the likelihood of bottlenecks, causing yet more disruption for more people

London does have a finite umber of routes into the capital and consequently a finite amount of track and therefore space in between trains to run additional services.

Problem is that with 09TS is that there is wheel protrusion into the coach. Perhaps some covers and tip up seats could help sove this.

I refer to reply #2 above (Chris W) Indeed a complex subject.

However, surely no-one can complain if a new public transport route is quickly adopted and well-utilised?

Equally, isn't the problem the consistent lack of a national transport policy over the post-WW2 decades, irrespective of the 4/5 year life of governments and political popularity?

Now I'm not pleading knowledge with hindsight, just suggesting.....

What If, compared with all the costs of building the M25, the extra marginal cost of a four track cut-and-cover to main line loading gauge had been incorporated in its foundations? Two tracks for the locals, and two tracks for expresses? Then, had that been backed up with main city centre line rail and tube accesses, and Park and Rides?

cheers,

Hiya, A Good Cuppa.

I think that by coincidence I recently watched a VCR tape I made at the time it was broadcast explaining exactly why the Metro system died - by deregulation of the buses leading to the Metro no longer being the main passenger delivery point to the city centre.

As a traditional conservative, I have no problems with disagreeing with certain aspects of the Thatcher era. Equally, without wishing to contravene the "religion and politics" embargo generally enjoyed at this forum, the question could be reasonably asked why in 10 years an alternative government has done nothing to correct the problem?

If one tries to address the topic relevant to this forum objectively, without raising political asides, the Thatcher principle of private funding of the Channel Tunnel in hindsight was arguably Good, in that the construction costs over-ran, and broadly the British Taxpayer didn't bear the costs. But it could be argued that so many years later, we in Britain are still without the supporting infrastructure and benefits to make fuller use of the Chunnel. And in the meantime, so much more goods have been taken over by the road transport sector. (OK, that might have well gone back to Beeching in the 60's.)

And apologising for mentioning the dreaded "p" word once again, the truth is these days no-one will get involved with the sort of finance and problems in a Meaningful public transport policy. The Toll M6 is pretty empty; and all this private-public partnership guff just makes the lawyers rich, wastes administration and overheads, and broadly results in a Poorer Service.
If the NHS cash injection is cited as an opposing view, this fails as the last couple of years and the current position shows it is failing because of exactly the same "stop-go" economic reasons that the current government is so proud it has avoided.

It is important for serious debate and constructive alternatives to be debated in deciding important decisions such as our public transport policy.

Your comment involving the Romans is appreciated. They identified the essentials, and created the quickest routes (roads in their case) to service and maintain those essentials.

The difference nowadays is everyone is used to rights and compensation - rather lacking when the Romans created our infrastructure some 100 or so years ago.

In mentioning that point you made, it strikes me I need to be more aware of the exact reasons behind all the early railway development requiring Acts of Parliament.... whereas today one buys a bus, hires a driver, and seeks the most profitable routes as you again refer to. :-)

Out of respect to all the contributors to this Forum, I would hope that people will keep their ideas coming, because some solution is required. And it may well not be a politically correct or pleasant solution.... However, my feelings are that having created a very transport-dependent society, both in terms of work places and food, utilities and recreation facilities for its citizens, penalising and taxing car users is particularly unsound for two reasons.

First on ecology grounds - not all of us can actually live without our own transport with increasing urbanisation and reducing services into the country; and second, without some PROPER international commitment to saving our Planet's resources, what we are asked to suffer, be taxed more for, or forego, will hardly make any difference whatsoever, globally.


I do hope that somewhere on this Forum, the Moderators will offer further discussion on this essential topic where those who wish to contribute can do so.

After all, isn't it sensible if you seek to solve a problem to get the views of those who know most about what the problem actually is?


Cheers,

OngarParkNRide

You are entirely at liberty to start a specific thread based around the premise of this discussion; it appears to me to be one worthy of detailed examination and one I'm sure that will provoke some challenging posts - though please try to avoid the party politics; philosophies are one thing......

Please start the debate - even if only by the cut and paste method from this thread!