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Post by happybunny on Nov 13, 2007 13:12:06 GMT
I noticed today the Central had minor delays due to lack of available trains... this is a first for the Central isn't it? Is the 92 stock really that bad?
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Post by edb on Nov 13, 2007 13:49:50 GMT
I have to say as a daily central line commuter in the past few weeks the service in the mornings has become rubbish. frequency seems to have gone down the pan. The number of times i get to EBDY and there are no trains in the platform has risen phenominally!!
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Post by happybunny on Nov 13, 2007 17:31:31 GMT
Yeah I have noticed they have had lots of problems recently. The whole West Ruislip branch was suspended the other day for quite a while
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2007 18:06:58 GMT
Cable fire @ Hanger Lane and a signal failure @ Northolt have affected the Central over the past few days
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Post by Tubeboy on Nov 13, 2007 19:03:01 GMT
Shortage of train techs?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2007 21:48:29 GMT
Need I say more...
Their downfall, has, I believed, commenced in earnest!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2007 22:00:26 GMT
 Damn shame - I, for one, like them |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2007 22:08:47 GMT
Aye, they are good trains, but they are in desperate need of a 'refresh'...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 18:02:36 GMT
The problem with the lack of trains seems to be because of a high number of trains with flashed over motors.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 18:12:40 GMT
Lack of Scotch Tape? ;D
In all seriousness, I thought these trains were awesome when I took it as a kid a few times in 1995. Everything's new, nice and modern. I saw the 92TS as the future and it was one awesome future. Come 2005 and it's all tatters. Couldn't believe it.
It seems more to do with certain cattle customers not taking care of them, as well as the lack of regular cleaning of the seat cushions which really accelerated the ageing in my opinion.
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Post by superteacher on Nov 14, 2007 19:55:20 GMT
Lack of Scotch Tape? ;D In all seriousness, I thought these trains were awesome when I took it as a kid a few times in 1995. Everything's new, nice and modern. I saw the 92TS as the future and it was one awesome future. Come 2005 and it's all tatters. Couldn't believe it. It seems more to do with certain cattle customers not taking care of them, as well as the lack of regular cleaning of the seat cushions which really accelerated the ageing in my opinion. They spent so much money on the high tech parts of the train which meant that the rest of them (like the interiors, seats, water proofing) were really skimped upon. Agreed, customers are to blame in part, but the 92's have aged very poorly. This is a pity, because they are great trains. I'm sure they will be refurbished before 2012, bearing in mind that they serve Stratford! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 22:35:42 GMT
How long would it take to refurishment the entire fleet tho?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 22:41:08 GMT
Look how long it is taking the D78's to be refurbed and use that as a yardstick, but add on about 15 trains, then add 12% time because of the extra two cars per train...
If you look at some figures for a moment...
1x 8 car 1992 stock train when built cost £2.0m per train
1x 6 car 1995 stock train when built cost £6.0m per train
1x 6 car 1978 stock train REFURBED cost £0.8m per train
A Mid Life Refresh Programme was due to commence in June or November 2008... wether or not that happens is beyond me, and this plan was strictly below solebar level; ie, traction gubbins.
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Post by edb on Nov 14, 2007 22:55:38 GMT
Well at least there will be lots of well loved 67 stock units floating around soon!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 22:56:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 23:09:18 GMT
1x 8 car 1992 stock train when built cost £2.0m per train 1x 6 car 1995 stock train when built cost £6.0m per train 1x 6 car 1978 stock train REFURBED cost £0.8m per train So from the 92 stock to the 95 stock the cost increased from £0.25m per car to £1m? No wonder they couldn't afford to build the 92s properly! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 23:28:34 GMT
67TS on the Central? ;D
Seriously, they take far longer to hit the 50mph line speed of the Central than the 92TS and that would definately cause a problem of blocking back. Highly doubt it.
Far more viable to remove the ATO stuff and throw them into the Picc I think!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 23:30:41 GMT
67TS on the Central? ;D Seriously, they take far longer to hit the 50mph line speed of the Central than the 92TS and that would definately cause a problem of blocking back. Highly doubt it. Far more viable to remove the ATO stuff and throw them into the Picc I think! Aren't the 67s more likely to be used on the Bakerloo? They're very similar to 72s. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 23:34:34 GMT
Give the 67ts to the W&C in lieu of the MkI 72ts, then remove the W&C92ts to use as a standby for the main batch of 92ts.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 23:37:37 GMT
Give the 67ts to the W&C in lieu of the MkI 72ts, then remove the W&C92ts to use as a standby for the main batch of 92ts. Not sure that would go down well in the City though! That would probably mean the staffing of the W&C would transfer to the Bakerloo too. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2007 23:41:05 GMT
No... I don't think it would go down that well... More like an Anvil.
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 14, 2007 23:49:07 GMT
I'm looking forward to getting the 67s onto the Bakerloo for a mini-upgrade! There was a plan a few years back to get spare 72 mk1s onto the drain. Most of the mk1s have been scrapped now-which is a shame because I liked those trains alot-they weren't life expired either. I can't see 92ts leaving the W&C because they are so behind on upgrades. But if they did move them it would give another 2 1/2 trains to the Central. In the old days the W&C 40ts used to run in 5 car trains, tho I suspect the cars were shorter!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 14, 2007 23:59:36 GMT
A 487 car was 49' 1.75", whereas a 482 car is 53' 3.76", which means the buffers would have been moved about 30'. Actually, whilst on a rant about length; when the 92's have to be moved to the central to cover the gap of three extra trains needed when Park Royal interchange is built (or maybe that bit's rubbish - who can say  ), a 5 car 67/72 tube stock consist will only be 17' longer than the 5car 487 consist; unfortunately now thats almost a 50' difference if they've shortend the platforms. Granted having trains of aged stock on the W&C would break the terms of the contract, but surely if they were marshalled into 5car sets the added car could act as a compromise? Increased capacity after all. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2007 0:38:16 GMT
Look how long it is taking the D78's to be refurbed and use that as a yardstick, but add on about 15 trains, then add 12% time because of the extra two cars per train... If you look at some figures for a moment... 1x 8 car 1992 stock train when built cost £2.0m per train 1x 6 car 1995 stock train when built cost £6.0m per train 1x 6 car 1978 stock train REFURBED cost £0.8m per train A Mid Life Refresh Programme was due to commence in June or November 2008... wether or not that happens is beyond me, and this plan was strictly below solebar level; ie, traction gubbins. I thought that too (date wise). Let them finish the D's first then start on the 92TS. Maybe once the Metronet mess is sorted they'll announce it. Mid 08 start date does seem likely. Im sure if TfL (also know as Ken) gets its/his way they'll do something as rhe Central is too important for the Olympics to leave. |
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Post by Colin on Nov 15, 2007 2:23:06 GMT
The 92ts won't leave the Waterloo & City line - the financial implications/involvement of the City of London Corporation will see to that! Some of the 67ts has already been earmarked for the Bakerloo - the rest will be scrapped So the 92ts on the Central will have to soldier on....... |
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 15, 2007 9:57:12 GMT
How many trains of 67/72mk1 do they want to put on the Bakerloo? I think 7 is needed to get back to Watford but a few extra wouldn't hurt!
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Post by tubeprune on Nov 15, 2007 15:18:15 GMT
How many trains of 67/72mk1 do they want to put on the Bakerloo? I think 7 is needed to get back to Watford but a few extra wouldn't hurt! Sending the Bakerloo out to Watford is not sensible. The line is already too long to manage properly when something goes wrong. If the service extends to Watford, it will get suspended every time anything goes off book. My answer would be "Don't do it", improve the DC service instead. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 15, 2007 15:38:11 GMT
Surely though it would make sense if extending the Bakerloo back to Watford to reinstall some of the former crossovers in zone 1?
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Post by metman on Nov 15, 2007 15:55:33 GMT
Like the one at Piccadilly Circus? I was down there the other day and I couldn't work out how they would have fitted the scissors X in. The Northbound road would get in the way? I think the Bakerloo should extend to Watford, the DC service is so poor and extra trains haven't and won't be ordered to improve it! If there is a delay in the service, the Bakerloo would just have to do what other lines do! E.g. the Met runs Wembley/Harrow-Northbound, the Picc Hyde Pk Cr/Acton-Westbound, the Central White City-Westbound etc!
Where were some of the other crossovers in zone 1?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 15, 2007 16:07:08 GMT
Marylebone, Edgeware Road and Paddington from what I can gather.
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), a 5 car 67/72 tube stock consist will only be 17' longer than the 5car 487 consist; unfortunately now thats almost a 50' difference if they've shortend the platforms.
