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Post by superteacher on Sept 4, 2007 22:31:41 GMT
I know that to enter sidings controlled by a shunt signal, the T/OP must select coded manual as ATO doesn't work in these situations. However, trains entering the sidings (well, technically loop lines) at Debden, Newbury Park and Woodford are governed by a colour light signal with a junction indicator. Does that mean that the T/OP could select ATO, and the train would stop at the signal at the other end? As far as I know, they usually select CM for this, but I was wondering if ATO could be used, even though it may be forbidden to do so?
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Post by rob66 on Sept 17, 2007 8:46:33 GMT
ATO works entering Woodford siding/loop but not coming out. I often go into the siding in ATO, except if the rails are slippery. ATO will work from the Eastbound -over the crossover -through the loop into platform one at Woodford, but not into the sidings. CM has to be used.
In Hainault Depot - you begin in RM to the shunt-then select CM and then ATO from platforms. Loughton sidings you start in CM until the platforms. Different locations have their different selections of RM -CM and ATO.
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Post by happybunny on Sept 17, 2007 18:07:50 GMT
What do you select when going into and out of Northolt sidings? And what about when de-trained at the gardens, does the train drive itself into the depot reception road or is it CM or RM ??
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Post by superteacher on Sept 17, 2007 18:40:46 GMT
ATO works entering Woodford siding/loop but not coming out. I often go into the siding in ATO, except if the rails are slippery. ATO will work from the Eastbound -over the crossover -through the loop into platform one at Woodford, but not into the sidings. CM has to be used. In Hainault Depot - you begin in RM to the shunt-then select CM and then ATO from platforms. Loughton sidings you start in CM until the platforms. Different locations have their different selections of RM -CM and ATO. I assume then that it is possible to drive into Newbury Park and Debden sidings in ATO mode, which have a similar signalling arrangement to Woodford sidings. As for the post about going into Ruislip depot from Ruislip Gardens, this would be via CM, as this move is controlled by a shunt (disc) signal. ATO is only possible on routes that are signalled for main line running. |
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Post by rob66 on Sept 17, 2007 19:56:17 GMT
Its CM at Northolt sidings both ways. Ruislip depot is CM until you get a little way into the depot - until reaching the board 'End of code'.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2007 10:25:10 GMT
Two questions.
1) If Debden and Newbury Pk sidings are signalled as main running lines, then can the tipping out rule be relaxed as at Kennington?
2) Also, why is ATO not allowed on tracks not signalled as main running lines but still with ATP codes? If CM can be operated, then why can't ATO?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2007 13:18:24 GMT
Newbury Park siding can be traversed in ATO - I did it when the Inner Rail was closed between Leytonstone and Newbury Park. The way the train was driven did not suggest that the driver was in CM.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 18, 2007 16:37:44 GMT
Newbury Park siding can be traversed in ATO - I did it when the Inner Rail was closed between Leytonstone and Newbury Park. The way the train was driven did not suggest that the driver was in CM. Yeah I always thought that was possible too - it is also possible to run from Newbury Park inner rail, through the siding abnd back to inner rail again - the same can be done from Debden eastbound. In fact, there are rusty rail moves in the timetable which do this in passenger service. The question is, can rrains which are terminating in the sidings run into them in ATO? These sidings (along with Woodford) are different to other sidings on the line (and other lines) in that they all have a connection at the other end. Trains which terminate at Debden and Newbury Park and reverse via the siding are given a green signal with the junction indicator set at 45 degrees. This is a main line signal move, and thus it SHOULD be able to be done in ATO, with the train automatically stopping at the correct point in the siding (just before the outlet signal at the other end). This also raises another issue - passengers can be carried through both sidings, so in theory detrainment wouldn't be necessary, even for terminating trains in much the same way as the Kennington loop. which is also signalled to passenger carrying standards. I think someone raised this point earlier in the thread. |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 18, 2007 19:35:05 GMT
I could be wrong, but I think I remember someone saying that at Debden the move from the EB platform into the siding is colour light signaled, but the move from the siding to the WB platform was controlled by a shunt signal, thus tipping out is necessary for reversers.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 18, 2007 19:39:49 GMT
I could be wrong, but I think I remember someone saying that at Debden the move from the EB platform into the siding is colour light signaled, but the move from the siding to the WB platform was controlled by a shunt signal, thus tipping out is necessary for reversers. Good point - Woodford, Debden and Newbury Park all have shunt signals at the exit, so yes, they would need to be tipped out. Another point, not entirely connected with the thread title - can a train in one of these sidings get signalled back into the same platform it has come from? This can be done at "proper" sidings like Marble Arch and Northolt, but I suppose there would be no need at Debden for example, because there is a connection at the other end anyway! |
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Post by rob66 on Sept 18, 2007 21:35:53 GMT
At Woodford westbound - you dont get a shunt to go into the siding - only a green signal with an arrow pointing left. Yes ATO - no problem. If you go through the loop at Debden and Newbury park - you also get a green signal. using ATO, but If reversing at these points - you get a shunt signal -entering in CM. Liverpool Street - Holborn - Marble Arch -White City and Northolt you go in CM. (in and out)
Although you go in Woodford siding in ATO - you can only come out in CM, because a shunt signal lets you out. White City depot or new sidings, this is CM only both ways.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 18, 2007 21:39:59 GMT
At Woodford westbound - you dont get a shunt to go into the siding - only a green signal with an arrow pointing left. Yes ATO - no problem. If you go through the loop at Debden and Newbury park - you also get a green signal. using ATO, but If reversing at these points - you get a shunt signal -entering in CM. Liverpool Street - Holborn - Marble Arch -White City and Northolt you go in CM. (in and out) Although you go in Woodford siding in ATO - you can only come out in CM, because a shunt signal lets you out. White City depot or new sidings, this is CM only both ways. Interesting you say that - I have watched numerous trains terminate at Debden, and they always enter the siding with a green signal and arrow. Same at Newbury Park. There is no shunt signal at Debden eastbound. |
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Post by suncloud on Sept 18, 2007 22:04:23 GMT
AIUI Both Debden and Newbury Park are fully signalled Eastbound (towards Epping/Hainault) so train can run in or through the siding in ATO, and have 'proper' signals. However once reversed in the siding the westbound move back into the station is covered by shunt signal and needs to be done in Coded Manual.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 18, 2007 22:08:27 GMT
AIUI Both Debden and Newbury Park are fully signalled Eastbound (towards Epping/Hainault) so train can run in or through the siding in ATO, and have 'proper' signals. However once reversed in the siding the westbound move back into the station is covered by shunt signal and needs to be done in Coded Manual. This is what I have suspected to be the case all along - however, as far as I can see and tell by the sound of the train, most drivers enter Debden siding in CM, even though ATO is available. |
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Post by tubeprune on Oct 3, 2007 18:32:24 GMT
Could someone tell me if you have to test the ATO during train preparation or do you wait until you get onto it to find it's stuffed?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2007 19:15:08 GMT
If anythings wrong with the ATO system, you get a message on the DTS monitor, such as ATO Data Transfer Error [ATO 7] or PAC Overrun [ATO 29]. The best one I had when leaving Epping Platform 2 once was ATO Not Enabled for this route, despite the fact I was moving in ATO mode...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2007 19:39:39 GMT
Best one I ever had was Motoring with Brake Applied while running into the tunnel at Leytonstone e/b Hainault. Well, despite the fact I was gaining speed, those wheels must have had severe flats on them...
Put a computer on a train, and you...
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Post by rob66 on Oct 4, 2007 11:45:50 GMT
Had a good train yesterday: The speedo and ATP kept on going blank. The fitter met me and he banged the top of it to make it come back, although after a few minutes it went blank again. It was safe to drive in ATO but not in CM or RM. A change over was being arranged.
The above answer to the previous question: The only way if you know your ATO isn't working would be on the main unless the DTS told you otherwise, if a mcb dropped out. If it doesn't work - reset ATO mcb - if still no luck, drive in CM until a fitter meets you or Line Controller arranges a change over if cannot be rectified.
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Post by tubeprune on Oct 6, 2007 19:05:13 GMT
Thanks for all the info. I am trying to work out what will happen at Neasden when they have two ATP/ATO systems to play with.
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