Deadman on ATO

Yes. I too think that the Vic doesn't have a deadman Coz' The trains drive themselfs

Same as 72' It was constructed because the plans were to instal ATO then (Bakerloo,Northern)

But is it not the case that even in coded manual you cannot exceed the speed given by the codes? If so, that is the deadman function.

Well, no.

The deadman/vigilance device/whatever purpose is to ensure that there is an alive and preferrably conscious operator/driver/lookout in the cab, who presumably can take the proscribed actions in case something goes wrong.

A cab signalling/ATP/ATC system that prevents a train from exceeding a certain speed is a cab signalling system. It is all about the "safe braking distances" bit, and can manage perfectly well on it's own without human intervention.

Sometimes on sundays from Leytonstone-Epping/Hainult they don't

....But very good!

On both the Victoria & Central, when the trains are running in ATO, there is no deadman feature whatsoever, All the driver needs to do is open / close the doors and press the ATO start buttons.

On the 67ts, the TBC sort of works in ATO, but not fully. You only have the use of the brake positions, and not the positions that provide motoring. When you are physically driving them, you have to keep a big brown button held down, this is located on the cab desk, sort of below the speedo.

On the 92ts, the TBC doesnt have any affect on the train, apart from if you were to knock it out of the 'stowed' position. When driving in Coded, 92ts becomes like any otehr stock, with the radio alarm, which needs to be cancelled if the TBC is idle for 2 mins.

The subject of exceeding the speed limit on 92ts when driving in Coded Manual, is not a deadman feature, it is purely the ATP system keep you in check, preventing any unsafe driving.

There isnt really any need for a deadman built into ATO, as the computer is operating the train, and will top the train in accordance to what the signalling system states.



Slight incorrect terminology there! If you were to isolate the deadman, you would be cutting a safety critical piece of equipment out, and wouldnt be able to run in passenger service.

On the 1967 stock there is a vigilance button which replaces the deadman for when the train is driven manually. In ATO it isn't required, but needs to be depressed in the same way as a CTBC when driven manually.

On the 67s you either have the choice of throwing the CTBC to the 'Emergency' Position, or if the T/op is on the offside part of the cab, pulling the red Emergency Handle to vent Train Line air into the atmosphere to cause an emergency application of the Westinghouse Brake.

On the 92 Stock, you can either pull the CTBC out of 'stowed' position or hit an emergency plunger just left of the drivers desk (next to the whistle) - see www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/stock/stockpics/92stockCabInterior.jpg (the large red button is the emergency plunger)

Both sides of 92 and 67 stock cabs have means to stop the train in an emergency

There is also a similar emergency button on the offside.

There is also an offside emergency stop - which was one of the first things I found out upon covering ATO test runs.

Yes and No. If you refer to the TBC as isloated, you mean its cut out, rather than just stowed / shut down.

When its stowed in ATO, it forms part of the RTC (round Train Circuit), if you knock it out, it drops out the circuit, which in turn gives you an emcy application

That surprises me, alsways thought it was, for obvious reasons.....

Interesting, very interesting.

BTW, why are the doors refered to as M and J doors? Does it stand for something?

Moderators, I am expecting a slapped wrist for this comment - I know I should have started a new thread!

One at each end of the train. I had to got the rear cab a couple of times to retrieve test equipment, normally involving a hair raising walk through the train around the St.Pauls/ Bank curves...