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Post by q8 on Oct 13, 2005 9:39:07 GMT
Would there be any benefit in extending the trains from the Milll Hill East Branch to run southwards via East Finchley and onto some of the abandoned 'Northern heights' infrastructure and having a shuttle service along it?
I don't know how far it could go owing to having had things built across the route but it may at least provide a service for those folk living around the never built line.
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Post by tom2506 on Oct 13, 2005 9:42:56 GMT
Good idea but the money involved would be significant so LU probobly wouldnt bother, and also the drivers would probobly complain!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 11:25:30 GMT
Harringay Council would probably also complain, as any such service wouldn't be useful unless it went south of Highgate High Level to Crouch End and/or Stroud Green, with full double tracking.
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Post by q8 on Oct 13, 2005 16:17:40 GMT
Haringey Council would probably also complain, as any such service wouldn't be useful unless it went south of Highgate High Level to Crouch End and/or Stroud Green, with full double tracking. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats what I meant TOK. The service to include those places as well. I would be about the same length as the ELL I suppose and operated on a similar basis. I.E. self contained.
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Post by ikar on Oct 13, 2005 18:15:04 GMT
Would there be any benefit in extending the trains from the Milll Hill East Branch to run southwards via East Finchley and onto some of the abandoned 'Northern heights' infrastructure and having a shuttle service along it? I don't know how far it could go owing to having had things built across the route but it may at least provide a service for those folk living around the never built line. Isn't the Northern height's abandoned because the green teritory where is restricted building
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 18:44:19 GMT
The only part of the Northern Heights abandoned due to the Green Belt was Edgware to Bushey Heath. Edgware to Mill Hill East foundered due to low housing potential and Alexandra Palace/East Finchley to Moorgate via Highgate and Finsbury Park foundered due to lack of resources.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 22:31:39 GMT
The MHE to Edgware section would certainly not have paid. When I lived in Finchley in the 50s and 60s, one half-cab single-deck bus (not even an RF) could carry all the traffic offering along that route.
It would be pretty pointless to rebuild the line from East Finchley to Stroud Green, and it would be very expensive to extend to Finsbury Park. The area there that was to have been used for the Northern extensions is now occupied by the lines linking the main line to the Northern City line, so it would probably be necessary to go into tunnel south of Stroud Green and build a new underground station at Finsbury Park. I can't see that the likely traffic could justify the expense.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 22:49:53 GMT
True, but considering themovements with TfL London Rail, there's no reason why a second GN&CR service couldn't be laid on from Moorgate, diverging at Finsbury Park via a flyover onto the Parkland Line, eventually terminating at East Finchley - the route doesn't _have_ to be served by the Northern Line, especially since there may not be sufficient tube stock available, whereas there may very well be 313s available someday. Going any further wouldn't make much sense IMO, as three-tracking the route between the Finchleys wouldn't be too useful.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2005 23:43:24 GMT
I've walked the Highgate to Finchley Park section and it's all pretty intact except for the last bit into Finsbury Park where I believe there used to be a bridge over the mainlines. So Mill Hill East - Finchley Central - East Finchley - highgate - Crouch End - Stroud Green - Finsbury Park would be feasible but how expensive I have no idea. Highgate - Cranley Gardens - Muswell Hill - Alexandra Palace has been partly built on. And here's that 1949 diagram again: img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map19490ly.jpg
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Post by q8 on Oct 14, 2005 5:18:20 GMT
Doesn't even have to go to East Finchley Really as It could possibly wind up at Ally Pally But if it did go beyond EF then Mill Hill East would be the logical terminus as I think there is sufficient land trackside between EF and FC to put in 4 tracks.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2005 9:34:34 GMT
Doesn't even have to go to East Finchley Really as It could possibly wind up at Ally Pally Some serious obstacles (including a school) have been built on the trackbed between Highgate and Alexandra Palace.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2005 9:35:53 GMT
Don't forget the flyover to take the n/b Northern Line over the down MHE line.
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Post by q8 on Oct 14, 2005 11:51:10 GMT
Oh well Ally Pally is out then. As for the flyover, there are three tracks approaching FC northbound and I belive that there may be room there for it. (And possibly why ther over bridge is quite high)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2005 14:39:16 GMT
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Post by q8 on Oct 14, 2005 17:32:59 GMT
Thanks for those photo's adw. I still think that if the ELL were to be connected underground with the Moorgate northern electrics and a connection made at Finsbury Park with the abandoned northern hieghts line a very useful service could be set up. Think of it. MHE or EF to Croydon. Very handy methinks.
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Post by q8 on Oct 17, 2005 10:17:07 GMT
IIRC. The infrastructure of the 'northern heights' line is to surface stock loading gauge anyway including Highgate tunnel. So to get to EF should not be a problem. Gradients are no big deal to modern electric stock anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2005 11:05:22 GMT
Technically, no problem. In GNR/LNER/BR days, the track from Finsbury Park to E Finchley took mainline size trains. I can remember BR tanks batting coal trucks around Fin Cen yard.
I would suggest that the problem is the almost complete lack of any commercial point to this expensive exercise. All it would do would be to provide a link between E Fin and Finsbury Pk; and I would think that existing bus services provide for this limited demand.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2005 11:48:41 GMT
Indeed. The real money spinner would have been Moorgate to Alexandra Palace via the Parkland Line; it's unfortunate that the route is blocked and would cost too much money paying off NIMBYs to reopen, as the usefulness of Alexandra Palace for events would skyrocket and the local City workers could abandon the Misery Line for good!
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