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Post by ianhardy on Jul 2, 2024 21:30:02 GMT
The TfL Service Update site:
METROPOLITAN LINE: Saturday 13 and Sunday 14 July, no service between Aldgate and Harrow-on-the-Hill and no stopping service between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Northwood. Trains operate between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Uxbridge, and between Northwood and Amersham / Chesham (via Watford). In addition, a Harrow-on-the-Hill to Amersham service operates, non-stop to Moor Park then all stations. CHILTERN RAILWAYS services operate normally between Marylebone and Aylesbury Vale Parkway (via Amersham). Replacement buses operate.
This seems to suggest that there will be a regular service on the Watford North Curve for the whole weekend, does anyone know the service pattern that is planned to operate.
Many thanks in advance
Ian Hardy
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Post by d7666 on Jul 2, 2024 21:46:18 GMT
LOL GMTA I just found that myself, posted nearly the same on a.n.other forum then thought to come here and check.................
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 2, 2024 22:00:59 GMT
There will indeed be services over the Watford North Curve amongst a number of other service variations that weekend.
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Post by ianhardy on Jul 3, 2024 20:56:16 GMT
Many thanks for the information, most helpful.
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
Posts: 745
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Post by a60 on Jul 13, 2024 14:11:29 GMT
The Uxbridge portion of the service seemed to struggle today; was informed at around 14:35 that there would not be another Uxbridge train from Harrow until 15:45. As against the advertised 20 minutes frequency, that would seem to suggest that they were running an hourly service or thereabouts. Given all the aggro involved in keeping a 20 minute frequency shuttle running between these two points; could anyone advise if the benefits of running trains on this section still outweighed the costs?
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Post by graeme186 on Jul 13, 2024 20:01:53 GMT
Looking at intertube data, it appears one of the three trains forming the 20 minute service between Uxbridge and Harrow was stabled in Uxbridge Sidings for a reason between approx 13:00 and 16:00. Interestingly, in the past, when there has been no service south of Harrow, it has been normal to run a 10 minute service with six trains between Uxbridge and Harrow as was the case over the weekend of 13th/14th April earlier this year. Obviously, for reasons, that's not possible this weekend.
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Post by linus on Jul 14, 2024 17:27:35 GMT
I made my way yesterday from Rickmansworth to Willesden Green. TfL information was misleading, dire, execrable. Items of direness:
1 At Rickmansworth, northbound, platform indicator said "See front of train" for all TfL services. So they have no idea where the trains are going?
2 Rickmansworth, southbound. Just missed a Watford. Platform indicator said “1 Chiltern train. 2 Not in service". So they don't know where Chiltern trains are going? Why can't it display Marylebone?
Duly the Not in service arrived, showing Watford. I and a few others got on. Some got on and off again. Some studied the maps and wondered how the hell the train would get to Watford. Reverse at Moor Park perhaps?
3 Watford. "This train terminates here. All change. Please take all your belongings with you." No hint that it was in fact going to continue to Northwood. At least not for a few minutes, when the PIS changed to This is a Metropolitan line train to Northwood. By this time everyone else had got off, some evidently confused tourists with luggage, utterly bemused. Zilch announcements from the driver or anyone else. I would have helped them if they weren't a long way away, except...
4 Train announcement: The destination of this train has changed. This is now a Metropolitan line train to Amersham". Almost immediately followed by "This is a Metropolitan line train to Northwood. The next stop is Croxley."
I stayed on. At Croxley "... The next stop is Moor Park". Nothing at all from the driver. Sure enough, we took the normal route and duly ended up at Northwood. A replacement bus was waiting (although the signs to it pointed the wrong way), and had a good run to Wembley Park.
5 I had to wait 55 minutes for a replacement bus to Willesden Green. According to the attendant, they were supposed to be every 7 minutes and the next one was just around the corner. Only it wasn't; I could have got home far quicker on service buses. What was particularly galling was a JL2 to Finchley Road about 10 minutes in, standing for ages before finally running off out of service.
Overall impression? TfL haven't a clue how to inform their customers of what is going on. They spend zillions on trains, infrastructure and replacement buses, and get the basics of customer liaison totally wrong, particularly in deviations. Utter incompetence.
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Post by xtmw on Jul 14, 2024 18:35:45 GMT
No expert of the Met/SSR but I believe the DMI's don't have a code for Marylebone, and I thought that all trains using the NC just show up as 'Metropolitan Line'
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 14, 2024 20:11:22 GMT
I made my way yesterday from Rickmansworth to Willesden Green. TfL information was misleading, dire, execrable. If you haven't done so already, I'd suggesting writing in to Customer Services to get the numerous facets of your feedback logged. 1&2 relate to the extremely limited train describer information that's currently available in legacy signalled areas such as this. Even though the platform indicators date from 2016, they are essentially working off 1950's technology which is being replaced in the ongoing re-signalling programme. 3&4 relate to the unfortunate omission of Watford reversal trips on the S stock CIS which means iirc it has to be set up as separate trips. What you encountered at Watford might have been an erroneous trip code being entered shortly before being corrected. |
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Post by croxleyn on Jul 15, 2024 15:55:10 GMT
Linus, a quick look at Chiltern timetable suggests that all weekend southbound services call at Harrow OtH. Was this option not being broadcast on the PA?
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196 
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Post by Tom on Jul 15, 2024 18:19:23 GMT
Perhaps the solution, therefore, is next time to keep linus happy and instead run something like: - 2tph Northwood to Watford
- 2tph Northwood to Chesham
- 2tph Rickmansworth to Amersham
thus avoiding the North Curve. I'm sure the good people of Watford won't mind their service level being halved in the interests of purity of passenger information. |
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
Posts: 745
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Post by a60 on Jul 15, 2024 19:01:12 GMT
Looking at intertube data, it appears one of the three trains forming the 20 minute service between Uxbridge and Harrow was stabled in Uxbridge Sidings for a reason between approx 13:00 and 16:00. Interestingly, in the past, when there has been no service south of Harrow, it has been normal to run a 10 minute service with six trains between Uxbridge and Harrow as was the case over the weekend of 13th/14th April earlier this year. Obviously, for reasons, that's not possible this weekend. Thank you Graeme - that helps me understand it to a degree. It was reported to me later on that the frequency wasn’t quite knocked down to hourly like the announcement at Harrow had us believe. If I do share a grumble with Linus, it is that the information and communication could be improved upon, but I appreciate the limitations of trying the glean information from an antiquated system which this weekend’s work was all about replacing. Oh well, it’s been and gone now - what’s the intended go-live date for the next phase of CBTC? |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Jul 15, 2024 19:32:08 GMT
Oh well, it’s been and gone now - what’s the intended go-live date for the next phase of CBTC? Some of us who worked on the closure only got home eight hours ago; it's a bit premature to be asking questions like that. The test results need to be analysed before a date can be set. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 15, 2024 20:34:05 GMT
No expert of the Met/SSR but I believe the DMI's don't have a code for Marylebone, and I thought that all trains using the NC just show up as 'Metropolitan Line' I cannot speak for the North Curve, but as for Marylebone, yes it used to be shown, as seen in the early 1990s. Surely the dot matrix screens still include what is a regular destination from this station??? Filmed at Chorleywood - the film has been set to start at 54 seconds. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 15, 2024 21:18:25 GMT
Unfortunately, this is another edge case since the lightbox (removed and superseded 2017-18) at Chorleywood was manually switch-operated by staff and was not directly connected to the signalling system. Chiltern services on LU metals carry the historic ‘LM(x)’ description, which does not fully account for stopping patterns/destinations. Hence, a generic ‘Chiltern Train’ display on platform train indicators drawing from this limited source.
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Post by A60stock on Jul 16, 2024 9:03:29 GMT
I notice this closure was one of the first where you have one set of lines operational and the other set shut (section between Harrow and Moor Park). In the past, this was more common.
Were there staff working on the slow lines, whilst the fast lines remained operational?
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
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Post by gefw on Jul 16, 2024 9:25:20 GMT
Think the slow lines were in use Moor Pk - Northwood (for the Northwood Reversers ) they appeared just not to be in use Northwood - Harrow on H.
It would seem that the limitation is reversing trains SB to NB at Harrow (only 2 plats used for this, one of which is limited due to the need for through running Chiltern Trains).
I guess there were problems experienced on the previous closures when other service patterns were used.
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 16, 2024 11:22:28 GMT
Don’t know about work north of Harrow but test trains working to/from the SMA 8 boundary at Preston Road were using platforms 4 & 5, plus the siding at Harrow OT Hill, which would be prohibitive to a Local Lines service via North Harrow as it would require the same track in reverse.
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Post by A60stock on Jul 16, 2024 13:51:38 GMT
Think the slow lines were in use Moor Pk - Northwood (for the Northwood Reversers ) they appeared just not to be in use Northwood - Harrow on H. It would seem that the limitation is reversing trains SB to NB at Harrow (only 2 plats used for this, one of which is limited due to the need for through running Chiltern Trains). I guess there were problems experienced on the previous closures when other service patterns were used. Indeed - sorry, should have been specific to ask why the local lines were shut between Northwood and Harrow? I assumed this meant there was specific work taking place on the slows from Northwood to Harrow? |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 16, 2024 16:04:39 GMT
Goldenarrow has got it in one. Don’t know about work north of Harrow but test trains working to/from the SMA 8 boundary at Preston Road were using platforms 4 & 5, plus the siding at Harrow OT Hill, which would be prohibitive to a Local Lines service via North Harrow as it would require the same track in reverse. In order to keep test trains and passenger trains separated one of the crossovers at Harrow was secured, this meant only platforms 2 and 6 could be used to reverse a SB service. There is no access from either of these platforms to the local lines; only to the NB main from platform 2 and to the NB Uxbridge from platform 6. |
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