Gate stock

Many thanks for looking. After I posted I found a Piers Connor article on the LURS web site. It is very useful. The Tube Trains Under London book is very cheap, so I will buy it if it has anything useful in it.

I have works drawings of all the various gate stock varieties, but would really like to know if they ran in short formation on the Piccadilly line in the 20s. If so, what was the makeup? Would the Control Trailer have been used for driving on the line? As this is a major scratch building / etching exercise short trains are good!

Tim

Having read through the relevant bits of the Piers Connor series in Underground News, there unfortunately isn't much by way of specifics on the formation of the gate stock on the Picc in its latter years.
He does state that "Generally, over the LER, you might get anything from a 2 car Motor-Control Trailer train up to a full 6 car formation, depending on availability and the time of day." Five cars is mentioned as a common length in peak hours on the Picc, owing to many trailers having been transferred to the other lines.
By 1927 the Piccadilly had a gate stock fleet of 64 motor cars, 32 control trailers, and 49 trailers, so all sorts of permutations were definitely possible.
It was assumed 20% of motor cars and 10% of trailers would be undergoing maintenance at any one time. This fleet therefore permits a peak provision of roughly twenty five trains, each in a motor-trailer-control trailer-trailer-motor formation.

From 1914, some of the control trailers had more enclosed cab ends installed in place of the totally open gates, giving more protection for the driver.



The exact number of control trailers with these cabs, and their distribution across the lines, is not known.

It is known that 10 Piccadilly control trailers were fitted with partially enclosed cabs at both ends in 1914, permitting greater operational flexibility.

 

Could someone suggest what livery the gate stock would have carried in the early 1920s?

Thank you
Tim

That would tally with the preserved / rebuilt section at Acton.
Effectively a crimson lake on the brown side (they often are). There is evidence of lining out in some pictures.

Tim

Midland red is crimson lake - I don’t think Carter would be referring to the bus company. The colour can appear quite dull and it definitely can carry a brown hue; it is transformed once it is lined out with straw and black.

Tim

I've now found the copy of Underground News with the details of the gate stock livery, so here is what Piers Connor has to say on the matter:

"The basic exterior colour scheme for the original Bakerloo fleet was a two-tone livery, with cream above the waist and a deep maroon below that was variously referred to as "Derby red", "engine lake" or "dark maroon". Quite what any of these meant is difficult to determine now but I think the "Derby red" was a bit too light a shade, if the current perception of the Midland Railway's red is considered. The "lake" in "engine lake" comes from the way in which the pigment is manufactured to give the colour.

It's nothing to do with water. The "dark maroon" seems to be close to what we might see today on the preserved example of the Underground's sleet locomotives. It was applied to service vehicles in the 1950s and onwards before the ubiquitous yellow peril took over.

The Bakerloo's colour scheme went all around the car body including the gated ends but it wasn't applied to the Piccadilly and Hampstead fleets, doubtless because of cost. These were all-maroon. Only the two British-built trailer cars delivered to the Piccadilly Line were in the two-tone scheme but that didn't cover the car ends. (These cars never entered passenger service)

Once numbers and lettering were applied, cars were generally covered with several coats of clear varnish to protect the paint finish."