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Post by trt on Nov 14, 2023 9:08:12 GMT
Interesting one last night. I was going Northbound via City as per usual but the DVA and screens insisted the train was Via Charing Cross to Battersea Power Station. But worse was the fact the DVA and screens correctly announced the current station, even though that would be an impossibility for the service it announced. It also announced the next station on departure but it was the one if you were going south on the City branch. It kept this up for the whole of the time I was on board.
One person leapt off through the closing doors getting their bag caught presumably as they thought they were boarding the correct direction but heard a contrary announcement. I saw them rushing off in the direction of the other platform.
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Post by Chris L on Nov 14, 2023 9:16:15 GMT
Interesting one last night. I was going Northbound via City as per usual but the DVA and screens insisted the train was Via Charing Cross to Battersea Power Station. But worse was the fact the DVA and screens correctly announced the current station, even though that would be an impossibility for the service it announced. It also announced the next station on departure but it was the one if you were going south on the City branch. It kept this up for the whole of the time I was on board. One person leapt off through the closing doors getting their bag caught presumably as they thought they were boarding the correct direction but heard a contrary announcement. I saw them rushing off in the direction of the other platform. This happens a lot. |
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 14, 2023 14:50:44 GMT
Sigh Over the years I've experienced the too. Only on the Northern line. Is the system run by gremlins? |
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Post by A60stock on Nov 14, 2023 15:44:26 GMT
In such situations, would it not make more sense to switch the DVA off with the driver making the announcement at key stations or, if possible, just set it to state the destination of the train? This seems more logical than having incorrect information displayed.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 14, 2023 15:49:51 GMT
Such actions would require the driver to be aware that the DVA is giving wrong information, which they will not always be (I don't know how audible the announcements are in the cab, but even if they can hear them they will not be specifically listening to them) - and when they are aware it is probably going to be about as easy for them to fix the problem.
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Post by A60stock on Nov 14, 2023 16:24:26 GMT
Ofcourse! I was assuming the DVA was broken and the driver gave up with it, but realise it may not have been that.
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Post by t697 on Nov 14, 2023 19:22:28 GMT
Pretty sure this describes the train proceeding along with the wrong destination having been set. It gets updated by ATC with each station ID, looks up the next one in the direction the destination is allegedly heading and announces that as the next one, which is of course actually the previous one.
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Nov 14, 2023 20:42:47 GMT
I was on a service once where the announcements weren't working at all, bar on the approach to Clapham Common, where the SDO announcement played but radio silence for the rest of the journey.
How does this work?
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Post by trt on Nov 14, 2023 21:46:38 GMT
Pretty sure this describes the train proceeding along with the wrong destination having been set. It gets updated by ATC with each station ID, looks up the next one in the direction the destination is allegedly heading and announces that as the next one, which is of course actually the previous one. Still doesn't account for the impossible stations on that route! |
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Post by t697 on Nov 14, 2023 21:56:06 GMT
I was on a service once where the announcements weren't working at all, bar on the approach to Clapham Common, where the SDO announcement played but radio silence for the rest of the journey. How does this work? Ah, the mysteries of the 95TS CIS! The SDO message is designated a safety message. Possibly the TMS plays it in some circumstances when ATC gives it the relevant location ID but the rest of the CIS messaging is lost regarding destination and actual journey sequence not matching. |
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Post by t697 on Nov 14, 2023 21:58:36 GMT
Still doesn't account for the impossible stations on that route! Yes the 95TS CIS is full of mystery even when working as designed! Not the best on LUL in my view. |
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Post by brigham on Nov 15, 2023 8:34:15 GMT
Good job the computer isn't doing the driving...
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Post by A60stock on Nov 15, 2023 10:19:25 GMT
Did the 95ts come with a full DVA upon entering service from new? I know the 96ts only used to announce the destination at first and that it took years before a full DVA came into use
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Nov 15, 2023 13:34:06 GMT
Ah, the mysteries of the 95TS CIS! The SDO message is designated a safety message. Possibly the TMS plays it in some circumstances when ATC gives it the relevant location ID but the rest of the CIS messaging is lost regarding destination and actual journey sequence not matching. When does the location ID get loaded? Is it on the approach to or at the station itself? I don't know how it was configured, as I noticed when the train arrived that the front destination board was blank. Someway in the journey an announcement was made that the train would terminate at Tooting Broadway instead, after which the announcements started playing properly and the display lit up. I made an audio recording of the journey on my mobile at the time linkStill doesn't account for the impossible stations on that route! Yes the 95TS CIS is full of mystery even when working as designed! Not the best on LUL in my view. It's almost certainly the one I'm most fond of though! Either that or the quirky 96TS one... |
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Post by xtmw on Nov 15, 2023 13:39:03 GMT
I know the 96ts only used to announce the destination at first and that it took years before a full DVA came into use I recall many years ago it would say 'Mind the gap. This station is X' |
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Post by wbk727 on Nov 15, 2023 17:22:50 GMT
I know the 96ts only used to announce the destination at first and that it took years before a full DVA came into use I recall many years ago it would say 'Mind the gap. This station is X' Me too. I still got it on my camcorder, although it was unnecessary when played at every station. All drivers should be trained to make relevant announcements if the DVA fails for whatever reason. Interesting how the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations doesn't fix the fact the 80% of the time, the required DVA info isn't always available when a train is stationary at a station. |
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Post by t697 on Nov 15, 2023 18:29:11 GMT
When does the location ID get loaded? Is it on the approach to or at the station itself? I don't know how it was configured, as I noticed when the train arrived that the front destination board was blank. Someway in the journey an announcement was made that the train would terminate at Tooting Broadway instead, after which the announcements started playing properly and the display lit up. I made an audio recording of the journey on my mobile at the time linkYes the 95TS CIS is full of mystery even when working as designed! Not the best on LUL in my view. It's almost certainly the one I'm most fond of though! Either that or the quirky 96TS one... With the current 95TS scheme the train TMS gets the "This station" and its ID from the ATC when the front is about half way down the platform on arrival. That's how the 'This is X etc. .....' visual starts running just before the train actually stops. The audio is set to start after the doors are commanded open.
There are other triggers from ATC to TMS including one about 180m before the station to trigger the approach audio message, 'The next station is X etc.'.
Answering someone else's point about RVAR; RVAR only requires name of this station, name of next station and the destination name. All the other stuff on LUL CIS is stuff LUL wants given such as interchanges, Mind the Gap, SDO doors cut out. And those instructing the scripts over the years have made them too long for the time available in some places so the train is telling you about something that's already happened and your chance has passed! I'm impressed that some people like the 95TS CIS. Have to say I don't.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 15, 2023 18:51:35 GMT
All drivers should be trained to make relevant announcements if the DVA fails for whatever reason. They are. The issue is that the drivers don't always know when the DVA has failed. |
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Post by xtmw on Nov 15, 2023 18:53:44 GMT
I recall many years ago it would say 'Mind the gap. This station is X' All drivers should be trained to make relevant announcements if the DVA fails for whatever reason. I'd like to touch on this point quickly. Chris M touched on this point by saying 'Such actions would require the driver to be aware that the DVA is giving wrong information, which they will not always be' and it may be that the DVA has failed for a reason and is complex to repair, holding the train on the City Branch just to fix the DVA wouldn't be the best (from checking the live departures from Tottenham Court Road, trains are running every 2-3 mins) as this would cause, essentially, a train traffic jam. Though I note this is not what you said, but I thought I would comment on this. Although I could be wrong and it could just be a case of pressing a few buttons, but I am not a qualified Train Operator and I will leave a professional to comment on this. Most of the time, the platform indicators are working and display the correct information, while I realise sometimes they may be switched off and display a generic message. It's rarely that I see any platform indicator not working in a Zone 1/2 station. It may just be a case of checking the platform indicator. Trt also says 'One person leapt off through the closing doors getting their bag caught presumably as they thought they were boarding the correct direction but heard a contrary announcement. I saw them rushing off in the direction of the other platform.' It is like commuters like these realising they have taken the wrong train, the platform indicator may also have been wrong. Are the platform indicators tied into the train destination screens or do they work off the timetable? But I do have to say, if I was a tourist and had no clue how to use the system, it would leave me puzzled, the platform indicators and presumably an app like Google Maps, Apple Maps etc telling me one thing and the train telling me a different thing. When I was in New York and using the trains there, I had 0 clue what I was doing, nor was my phone any help. It's always best to ask a member of staff if you don't know where you are going. It's a case of the train operator may not have known the DVA was faulty, and I presume they would give announcements they were aware if it was broken. The platform indicators are always a massive help, along with station staff. They are there to help, they keep the system running and give help wherever possible. |
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Post by Chris L on Nov 15, 2023 20:01:14 GMT
All drivers should be trained to make relevant announcements if the DVA fails for whatever reason. Most of the time, the platform indicators are working and display the correct information, while I realise sometimes they may be switched off and display a generic message. It's rarely that I see any platform indicator not working in a Zone 1/2 station. It may just be a case of checking the platform indicator. The new platform indicators have such small lettering that they can't be read from any distance. I believe that don't meet the appropriate standards for such displays. |
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Post by xtmw on Nov 15, 2023 20:22:32 GMT
Agreed. How can they be installed in the first place if they don't meet the specified standards? The ones at King's Cross at beyond hopeless.
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Nov 16, 2023 3:35:21 GMT
Are the platform indicators tied into the train destination screens or do they work off the timetable? In my own experience with the dodgy 95TS the next train display at Waterloo correctly counted down the destination and the time of arrival, even though the train itself had blank displays on the front. |
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