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Post by d7666 on Oct 20, 2023 14:27:32 GMT
Yesterday 19\10\23 I was on an in service 345 that got overtaken by another in service 345 but at an unusual location. This was around Ilford (or Aldersbrook as some call it) flyover where the normal Eliz line service route is the Electric Lines using the flyover to cross over the Main Lines. But there are avoiding lines outside the flying junction. I happened to be on 9Y87 1643 Shenfield - Paddington (returning from a field trip to Southend Pier for my required battery traction) and this service was literally was first come first served train for me at Shenfield, no plan to be on it more than anything else. See: www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L79898/2023-10-19/detailedAs expected, Up Electric - but at the ladder around Ilford depot west end exit, 9Y87 switched UE > UM > UPA (Up Pass Avoiding) avoiding the flyover then stopped at the converging signal - but the the interesting bit - 9T85 1638 Shenfield - LHRT5 see : www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L79415/2023-10-19/detailedrunning late and behind us, and skipping some halts, to go over the flyover, pass us, that we then followed. I'd suggest that is a somewhat unorthodox move. Why 9Y87 could not have taken the booked route and hold on the UEL for 9T85 to overtake via UPA without blocking the UPA for 6 minutes may remain a mystery. 50/50 I suppose. PS links will only last 7 days so anyone looking later than 27\10\23 will get errors.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 20, 2023 16:36:04 GMT
Archive links for anyone viewing after 27 October: 9Y87, 9T85
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 20, 2023 21:20:54 GMT
I cannot answer that query but back in the when we has Class 306 trains on this route when there was disruption all sorts of things happened and sometimes eastbound trains that were running non-stop to Ilford (and then Romford, all stns to Shenfield) were switched to the fast tracks (ie: from electric to main lines) after leaving Stratford platform 8, passing stopping trains whilst enroute.
Especially on Sundays, when track maintenance closed the electric lines east of Ilford, the local trains often used the 'at grade' avoiding lines to just to the west of Ilford to switch between the electric and main lines.
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Post by d7666 on Oct 21, 2023 13:41:53 GMT
I cannot answer that query but back in the when we has Class 306 trains on this route when there was disruption all sorts of things happened and sometimes eastbound trains that were running non-stop to Ilford (and then Romford, all stns to Shenfield) were switched to the fast tracks (ie: from electric to main lines) after leaving Stratford platform 8, passing stopping trains whilst enroute. Yes but all that is overtaking trains by actually running them on the Mains for several stations is not the same as what happened 2 days ago - which was 9Y87 effectively looped between 2 stations for 9T85 to go round it. The thing was they made it overall worse - holding an on time 9Y87 for 7 min to allow 9T85 to go from 10 to 8 min late is to me not right. Up to Ilford, 9Y87 was on time and 9T85 10 late => total delay 10 mins After Ilford, 9T85 only made up 2 mins and still 8 late and 9Y87 lost 7 m => total delay 15 min The only thing this appears to have sorted out is getting trains in the right sequence onto the core but is it essential to do that at such a delay cost ?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Oct 21, 2023 14:00:09 GMT
The only thing this appears to have sorted out is getting trains in the right sequence onto the core but is it essential to do that at such a delay cost ? No, but it does seem to be a common practice on the Elizabeth line. A lot of their service recovery techniques seem to involve disrupting the journeys of as many passengers as possible to arrive on time at a terminus or similar minimal gain.
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Post by Chris L on Oct 21, 2023 17:07:44 GMT
Certain early morning and late evening Elizabeth line trains run and stop at stations on the main lines.
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Post by seaeagle on Oct 31, 2023 6:57:30 GMT
The only thing this appears to have sorted out is getting trains in the right sequence onto the core but is it essential to do that at such a delay cost ? That happens all the time on TFL, E.G. a southbound Northern Line Morden via Bank train will be held at Kennington to let a late running southbound Morden via Charing X go ahead of it to keep trains in the right order
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Post by d7666 on Oct 31, 2023 12:50:27 GMT
The only thing this appears to have sorted out is getting trains in the right sequence onto the core but is it essential to do that at such a delay cost ? That happens all the time on TFL, E.G. a southbound Northern Line Morden via Bank train will be held at Kennington to let a late running southbound Morden via Charing X go ahead of it to keep trains in the right order with respect, LU does not hold an on time train A for 7 minutes to allow a train B that is 10 late to just make it 8 late. when actual times are that far adrift from the timetable , I'd suggest LU is more likely to reform A to B and B to A to maintain correct timetable order (and reforms like that are done every day in my normal work place)
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