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Post by A60stock on Sept 26, 2023 7:13:18 GMT
Noticed that fasts are running on the southbound local between moor park and harrow this morning. Thought this might be the harrow hot weather plan but turns out there are works going on the fast lines as I saw an engineering train and workmen on the lines.
What's going on with Chiltern then?!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 26, 2023 7:43:13 GMT
A defective tamping machine broke down on the NB main-line at Pinner.
Chiltern are suspended Amersham-Marylebone, (resumed 0945)
Southbound MET services resumed on the main-line at 0900.
The defective unit was finally moved to Rickmansworth and 31 south siding at 0940.
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Post by A60stock on Sept 26, 2023 9:02:25 GMT
Ahhh yes, that would be what I saw, thought it was planned!.
Didn't realise you were allowed workmen on one set of lines if the other is still operational. Back in the day, I recall the local lines being shut over the weekend for engineering works and the fast lines remaining open. These days, they shut both sets when works are due......progress?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 26, 2023 10:51:41 GMT
If you define progress as fewer track workers killed and injured, then yes progress has been made.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 26, 2023 12:31:50 GMT
Didn't realise you were allowed workmen on one set of lines if the other is still operational. Back in the day, I recall the local lines being shut over the weekend for engineering works and the fast lines remaining open. Both lines were closed when the tamping was taking place. The machine became defective just before services were due to start and special arrangements were implemented to have the local lines open, while the crews and others tried to repair it. This couldn’t be done and a rescue from the rear had to be arranged. |
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Post by A60stock on Sept 26, 2023 13:12:26 GMT
If you define progress as fewer track workers killed and injured, then yes progress has been made. A fair point. Were these decisions and changes made following lineside workers being killed/injured? |
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Post by A60stock on Sept 26, 2023 13:14:23 GMT
Didn't realise you were allowed workmen on one set of lines if the other is still operational. Back in the day, I recall the local lines being shut over the weekend for engineering works and the fast lines remaining open. Both lines were closed when the tamping was taking place. The machine became defective just before services were due to start and special arrangements were implemented to have the local lines open, while the crews and others tried to repair it. This couldn’t be done and a rescue from the rear had to be arranged. Very glad these arrangements were made as it would have been a right nuisance if the locals had to be closed as well, when they could be operated safely |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 26, 2023 15:57:52 GMT
How was the tamper moved to Rickmansworth ?
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 26, 2023 16:51:20 GMT
Used to have track patrols during traffic hours,take it this practice has stopped.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Sept 26, 2023 19:16:56 GMT
Were these decisions and changes made following lineside workers being killed/injured? Yes. Mostly elsewhere in the industry than LU, but as the activities have decreased nationally LU has followed industry best practice and reduced the amount of track work carried out with trains running. These days concerns around being on or around live traction current has also been taken into greater consideration than had previously been the case. There was an incident on LU infrastructure last year where a train struck a worker on the track, who was incredibly lucky to have escaped with relatively minor injuries. Had the circumstances been ever so slightly different they would have probably been killed. |
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Post by zbang on Sept 26, 2023 19:48:37 GMT
@a60stock, if you're really curious, read some of the RAIB reports; pretty much all of them have so-called Learning Points and recommendations at the end. Fortunately, there only seems to be around one report a year in the "Metros" class. (RAIB- Rail Accident Investigation Branch www.gov.uk/raib-reports) |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 26, 2023 23:23:21 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 27, 2023 6:42:35 GMT
How was the tamper moved to Rickmansworth ? Two battery locos were dispatched from Ruislip depot via Harrow to push the tamper to Rickmansworth. |
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Post by brigham on Sept 27, 2023 7:33:32 GMT
I would think that the 'outsourcing' of safety training has been a factor. Why have a highly trained specialist workforce, when you can just stop the trains and use contractors?
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Post by Chris M on Sept 27, 2023 12:15:11 GMT
While the RAIB report I linked above certainly did raise issues regarding the use of contractors vs in-house staff, those issues are not significantly related to whether trains need to be stopped or not - electricity doesn't care who your employer is for example.
Everybody who works on the track has to have had sufficient training that they are competent in the role they undertaking, and certainly on National Rail that competency is employer agnostic.
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Post by brigham on Sept 27, 2023 15:30:35 GMT
Sufficient training and no experience.
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Post by t697 on Sept 27, 2023 16:49:03 GMT
I think the incident linked involved inadequate briefing/familiarisation about the actual site rather than the general principles etc. Unawareness that the 3rd track alongside the Met Main is bi-directional as it is the Chesham branch running alongside the main for quite a distance.
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Post by Chris M on Sept 27, 2023 18:36:16 GMT
There will always be some trackworkers who are inexperienced regardless of who employs them (unless you never recruit new workers). Contractors are less likely to be highly experienced at a particular location than someone employed directly, but there will be exceptions both ways.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Sept 27, 2023 20:49:40 GMT
I would think that the 'outsourcing' of safety training has been a factor. Why have a highly trained specialist workforce, when you can just stop the trains and use contractors? Who suggested safety training had been outsourced? I don't remember reading that in the report. |
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Post by Tom on Sept 27, 2023 20:52:01 GMT
Sufficient training and no experience. Quite possibly so. Competence does not come from training alone; it is a product of training, experience, knowledge, and behaviours, demonstrated by consistent performance. |
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Post by roythebus on Sept 29, 2023 11:55:52 GMT
I'd suggest there was an international agreement made by the UIC maybe the Naples agreement regarding the safety of track workers and their protection from the danger of being hit by trains. Some of that involved using "barrier" trains on an adjacent line to afford that protection. It all depends on the clearance and risk assessment.
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