Future of the Bakerloo Line?

This thread is increasingly difficult to follow..

What is actually driving the need for a new depot?

Is Stonebridge depot now so run down or physically constrained that they are unable to maintain the existing fleet?

Or is the current fleet so tired that it will need another major renovation round and to comply with latest H&Safety standards that will probably require construction of a costly new facility ( a bit like CLIP on steroids) which may end up costing more than progressively replacing the current fleet with an add on order to the Picaddilly fleet?

I think we all realise how Money seems to dominate whatever decisions are made. This will often mean decisions are driven by short term spending constraints rather than longer term strategy without some sort of external funding solution (sale/leaseback?).

So if a cheap alternative new depot site can be found on the current Bakerloo route, then that is almost certainly what will be chosen even if it means that an extra depot(sub) facility may eventually be required to deliver decent service when(if) the line gets extended - especially if it heads well into Southern Territory without a major depot/stabling facility being provided at the southern end of the route to provide/service ample trains at the start/end of services.

The Weardale former council depot is indeed the location I recall had been suggested as a potential southern depot location. However as we are still just talking - than it seems unlikely this facility would be complete and available to support/replace Stonebridge within the next 10 years.

Which really only leaves one further option whereby there is some sort of rolling renovation at Stonebridge to bring it up to date and potentially ready to support new rolling stock deliveries at sometime in the late 2030s.

Wearside Council Depot site was in the consultations for line construction, and later for stabling. It would likely be too small to hold trains for a Hayes service, especially since the running lines would have to climb from tunnel level through that site to connect with the present line. More recently, the search for a new depot site in the north-west, or additional sidings for a larger fleet, was said to provide for a more frequent service and extension to Lewisham. Thus, if that search is successful, the Wearside site might not be required for a Lewisham service, but might be useful to hold trains for the Hayes extension, should that proceed.

A new FoI reply here links to a 2020 report by Hatch Regeneris to the London Boroughs of Lewisham & Southwark, entitled: Bakerloo Line Extension - Local Economic Impact Assessment, here.

At that time the proposal was for 36 trains per hour to Lewisham, with 24 trains per hour beyond. Conversion of the National Rail line to Hayes could involve a 6-month closure, but alternative National Rail stations would serve in the Borough of Lewisham during this period, whilst platforms and track are adjusted for step-free train access, and trial running under new signalling. The Borough favours moving Lower Sydenham station north to the Stanton Way and Southend Lane junction, next to Sainsbury’s, Stanton Square and former Bell Green Gas holders. The FoI states that this is not part of the TfL plan, but could receive future consideration. Apparently, the potential option to deliver the extension to Hayes concurrently with the construction of the tube line to Lewisham was the preferred option being pursued by TfL at that time.

report by Hatch Regeneris to the London Boroughs of Lewisham & Southwark, entitled: Bakerloo Line Extension - Local Economic Impact Assessment, here.

Would a solution be to provide better access which is to do a Rotherham Central and provide separate platforms at as many stations as possible on the Watford DC Line?

Also, do you think with the 24 stock they will get given a TOPS code like the 1972 stock is 499/2s?

Do people think the former line speed of 60mph on the DC lines will be restored post-24 stock?

Why not use the national standard of ETCS as most of the Bakerloo line runs on the Network Rail metals with the Hayes extension that will just increase the amount? ETCS can provide ATO as shown by Thameslink.

If Wiki is to be believed the 1972 stock uses 750v between Kilburn High Road and Harrow & Wealdstone post the introduction of the 710s.

In relation to the bay line at Willesden Junction, it was realigned when the platform was lengthened so it now sits on the location of both bays so you wouldn't be able to fit an extra bay in anymore.

During the Stonebridge Park closure could you not just use the London Overground depot at Willesden Junction and have a battery loco move the Bakerloo Line in or out of the depot or even better lay some fourth rail for the Bakerloo line? Is the plan to use the Network Rail Stonebridge Park Sidings for part of the Bakerloo Line Stonebridge Park depot rebuild? If so could you do as much work as possible on them and then bring them into use to allow for a part closure of the existing Stonebridge Park depot to allow for it to be brought up to the same standard as the new area of the depot? I think you could get at least ten extra spots to store Bakerloo trains on the Network Rail site.

I thought the Network Rail Watford DC signalling dated from the 1970s. Also, could a way to enhance safety before the introduction of new signalling would be fitting of AWS to the Bakerloo Line trains so that then they can use the AWS equipment on the Watford DC Line, not sure they would need TPWS as the Tripcocks already fulfil that role.

According to a Network Rail FOI platforms on the Watford DC Line for the joint running section seem to be set between 960mm and 1,000mm.

Do the existing and future Bakerloo line trains include GSM-R for the joint running on the Network Rail section of the line?

Do people think that the point work allowing trains to access Stonebridge Park depot will be upgraded to allow for faster clearing of the line, as it currently is 10mph could it be possible with some realignment to get 15-25mph out of it as far as the carriage washer to increase capacity or will not have a massive effect.

Link to Network Rail FOI request = www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/data_on_current_platform_heights

Fairly typical of a consultant's report. Ask the client for the answers they want.