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Post by wbk727 on Apr 26, 2023 11:14:03 GMT
Why has the announcements been changed when it was clear originally?
"To exit, move forward 3 carriages" is much clearer than "The doors in the rear carriages will not open. Please move to the first 6 carriages"
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Post by trt on Apr 26, 2023 16:19:48 GMT
Because if you're in carriage 7, moving forward 3 carriages is more than is required. I was caught out by this one heading out to Slough a few weeks ago.
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Post by pbin on Apr 26, 2023 17:51:10 GMT
I think the displays in the carriages can be utilised a lot more effectively. They could display a diagram of the carriages, showing the current carriage, which doors should be used for level access, where doors will open and even where exits are. They seem to not do much more than the Single line LED displays in their current set up. The only time TfL takes advantage of the screens is when they show the line diagram (and even that's not so good). What's the point of using LCDs if they won't be utilised fully?
It's weird that the different carriages don't have independent announcements. I know that they only play the announcement where doors won't open, but they could specify exactly how many carriages one would have to walk through.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Apr 26, 2023 18:26:28 GMT
It’s also a pity that LU don’t know the difference between a door and a set of doors. Telling people that the rear two doors won’t open is unhelpful if the person hearing the announcement does not realise that they mean the rear two sets of doors.
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Post by trt on Apr 27, 2023 9:50:30 GMT
Not sure if that's helpful at all, Class411. What's the difference between a door set, a door and a door leaf?
The other thing I find perplexing is that by default (on the Tube rather than the Elizabeth Line - I've not observed assisted VIPs on that line) they seem to seat VIPs in the block of seating immediately behind the driver's cab, regardless of where the VIP is alighting. I understand the reason for this is so that in the event of an evacuation or other situation emerging, the driver is aware of the location of the VIP and is as near as practicably possible to them. BUT given that the frontmost set of doors doesn't open at some stations, this leaves the VIPS having to negotiate their way past a lot more passengers, legs, bags on the floor etc at some stations than others. The rearmost set of double leaf doors in the frontmost car will always open, I think, so why not seat them there? In terms of probability, it's going to be 99.9999% certain that the VIP will alight at their expected station, as opposed to 0.0001% chance that there will be an emergency and even less of a chance that such an emergency will be made better for them because the driver can reach them 20 seconds sooner. I've had the discussion and been told it's not reasonable to expect every CSA to know which doors open at every station, but it doesn't matter I think, so long as there's consistency that VIPs etc are always seated in a position where their needs are best met regardless. I mean there must be a "sweet spot" on every service on every line.
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Post by t697 on Apr 27, 2023 18:45:22 GMT
It's correct that on S stock routes there is no station or individual platform where the 3rd doorway in the front car is not programmed to open. The only platform where the 3rd doorway in a car doesn't open is Baker Street platform 5 (Eastbound and Outer Rail) where all three doorways don't open on the rear car.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Apr 27, 2023 21:37:00 GMT
Not sure if that's helpful at all, Class411. What's the difference between a door set, a door and a door leaf? It isn’t helpful, the messages should be clear. In this context ‘doors’ is ambiguous. ‘Pair of doors’, on the other time is clear and unambiguous. So why do LU choose to use the ambiguous option? I would have thought that ‘door’ and ‘door leaf’ are synonymous. Where more than one door fills a hole they are generally referred to in the plural (e.g. ‘French doors’). |
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Post by zbang on Apr 28, 2023 5:54:42 GMT
I see very little ambiguity with calling an opening a "door", whether it has one or two moving parts (doors? leaves? slides? does it matter?), and even when there are two sliding things those are almost always are opened/closed together, forming the impression of a single unit.
Also consider that the general public isn't concerned with what we or TfL calls the individual parts, they want to know if they have to move forward to get off the train. They probably don't even use the word "alight".
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Post by brigham on Apr 28, 2023 7:32:29 GMT
The point concerning 'doors' has been completely missed here.
The 'rear two doors' could easily be taken to mean 'the two doors which close the rearmost doorway'.
That is NOT the meaning which is intended, and so is a possible source of confusion:
"The middle two didn't open either..."
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class411
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Post by class411 on Apr 28, 2023 8:33:46 GMT
The point concerning 'doors' has been completely missed here. The 'rear two doors' could easily be taken to mean 'the two doors which close the rearmost doorway'. That is NOT the meaning which is intended, and so is a possible source of confusion: "The middle two didn't open either..." Quite. If there is any possibility of confusion, as there is here, and alternative, unambiguous, formulations are available, an unambiguous option should be used. Confusion for passengers may be exacerbated by the way the ‘doors not in use’ (note: ‘ doors’) signs come on randomly at inappropriate times. I know that LU have a very relaxed attitude to proving incorrect information to passengers, but that doesn’t mean it’s right. |
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Post by Chris L on Apr 28, 2023 8:42:05 GMT
I thought the screens showed the carriage numbers are shown on the screens when the trains approach the short platform stations.
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Post by t697 on Apr 28, 2023 15:45:58 GMT
I thought the screens showed the carriage numbers are shown on the screens when the trains approach the short platform stations. I think several other postings have drifted into another session about S stock SDO announcements. Good to steer back to Elizabeth line trains! |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Apr 28, 2023 17:30:39 GMT
I thought the screens showed the carriage numbers are shown on the screens when the trains approach the short platform stations. I think several postings have drifted into another moan session about S stock rather than Elizabeth line trains! I love S-stock. No nostalgic associations, but superb at its job. [/OFFTOPIC] |
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Post by t697 on Apr 28, 2023 18:52:25 GMT
For those who don't like 'doors' in the announcements, how about 'doorway'? The rear doorway, the two rear doorways....
Send your proposals to LUL.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 29, 2023 15:47:29 GMT
Except the doorway doesn't open. The doors open. "Set(s) of doors" is probably the best way option if your going to be pedantic.
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Post by morello on May 18, 2023 22:00:05 GMT
I found myself getting off at Maryland yesterday and sitting on the 7th carriage (the last one where doors open). The announcement was very confusing. It wasn’t clear how many of the last carriages’ doors won’t open (correct answer 2 in Maryland) or which carriage you’re currently at. Unlike the overground or the district line where announcements are specific to your current carriage or indeed the northern line where there is one announcement across the train but is very specific.
I found myself momentarily confused even though I consider myself a train geek and I knew exactly how many doors will not open, because I hadn’t noticed which carriage I boarded…
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Post by wbk727 on May 19, 2023 9:39:31 GMT
I think the displays in the carriages can be utilised a lot more effectively. They could display a diagram of the carriages, showing the current carriage, which doors should be used for level access, where doors will open and even where exits are. They seem to not do much more than the Single line LED displays in their current set up. The only time TfL takes advantage of the screens is when they show the line diagram (and even that's not so good). What's the point of using LCDs if they won't be utilised fully? It's weird that the different carriages don't have independent announcements. I know that they only play the announcement where doors won't open, but they could specify exactly how many carriages one would have to walk through. "It's weird that the different carriages don't have independent announcements" which is EXACTLY what they had in the first place! Yet someone thought it was a good idea to change something that wasn't even broken. |
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Post by wbk727 on May 19, 2023 9:40:28 GMT
For those who don't like 'doors' in the announcements, how about 'doorway'? The rear doorway, the two rear doorways.... Send your proposals to LUL. "doorway" is used on their in-car stickers |
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Post by wbk727 on May 19, 2023 9:43:45 GMT
Because if you're in carriage 7, moving forward 3 carriages is more than is required. I was caught out by this one heading out to Slough a few weeks ago. Poor excuse, no one has the time to count 6 carriages. |
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Post by trt on May 19, 2023 9:49:59 GMT
Because if you're in carriage 7, moving forward 3 carriages is more than is required. I was caught out by this one heading out to Slough a few weeks ago. Poor excuse, no one has the time to count 6 carriages. There's no need to count. The in-car displays all show the number of the carriage out of how many there are. I like travelling in 7 of 9, but then I'm easily amused. I was given the instruction to move forward 3 carriages but the announcement must have been the same in every car - I got out at the front door of car 4 and was far, far forwards of the bit where the doors didn't open. It's far more logical, to me, if the announcement is the same in every car, which for simplicity of programming I suspect is the case, that absolute rather than relative addressing is used! |
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Post by wbk727 on May 19, 2023 14:31:36 GMT
Poor excuse, no one has the time to count 6 carriages. There's no need to count. The in-car displays all show the number of the carriage out of how many there are. I like travelling in 7 of 9, but then I'm easily amused. I was given the instruction to move forward 3 carriages but the announcement must have been the same in every car - I got out at the front door of car 4 and was far, far forwards of the bit where the doors didn't open. It's far more logical, to me, if the announcement is the same in every car, which for simplicity of programming I suspect is the case, that absolute rather than relative addressing is used! "I was given the instruction to move forward 3 carriages but the announcement must have been the same in every car" Never happened, it's only for a specific carriage. |
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Post by trt on May 19, 2023 14:45:00 GMT
Of course. How could I possibly have heard it with all the inter carriage doors closed?
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Post by wbk727 on May 20, 2023 16:00:08 GMT
Sometimes the announcement is played loudly, hence passengers in the next carriage can hear it, despite being unintentional
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