trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Apr 18, 2023 18:20:12 GMT
An answer to a question from the Mayor's question time (link) provided an update on the proposed DLR extension to Thamesmead: More information at ianVisits. My question is what would happen to Beckton, as the planned extension branches off after Gallions Reach. Will the DLR service be split between Beckton and Thamesmead? Also, I know the forum is not fond of bus discussion, but would the proposed Bus Transit be the first "guided busway" in London? |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Apr 18, 2023 21:04:06 GMT
Probably 50/50 split to Beckton & Thamesmead. The line at Gallions Reach is facing north, so I suppose will take route into Beckton depot with Riverside station before crossing by bridge? tunnel according to Ian Visits.
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Apr 18, 2023 21:13:23 GMT
IanVisits includes a quote from someone at TfL who says it will be a tunnel.
But yes, a 50/50 split makes sense. Somewhat similar to Amersham/Chesham, I guess? Although, along that line, would it be possible to have a shuttle from Beckton to Gallions Reach and full frequency to Thamesmead? There's a crossover north of Gallions Reach but I don't think the station's two platforms would be able to handle it.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 18, 2023 21:51:52 GMT
The most likely service pattern is Tower Gateway to Beckton and Canning Town or Stratford International to Thamesmead (or vice versa)
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Apr 19, 2023 4:25:42 GMT
When the current new trains were being ordered, six years back, consideration was given to possible future needs for additional trains. Thamesmead is mentioned, starting with a Beckton/Thamesmead shuttle 22.5tph, followed by a Beckton/Thamesmead to Stratford 15tph, and extra Beckton/Thamesmead to Poplar service 30tph, with possible Barking Town to Thamesmead service in a DLR maximum 36tph and Thamesmead to Abbey Wood extension, a fleet total of 135 trains. link |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Apr 21, 2023 5:34:56 GMT
I wonder why the DLR is heading for 36tph maximum capacity. This seems to be the current target for the tube lines, other than Bakerloo where the demand does not exist. I would have thought that the DLR could aim higher, with its shorter trains at gap-free straight platforms. A metro option for Crossrail 2 suggested that similar trains could achieve 40tph, if I recall correctly, perhaps even higher.
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Post by Chris L on Apr 21, 2023 7:29:53 GMT
I wonder why the DLR is heading for 36tph maximum capacity. This seems to be the current target for the tube lines, other than Bakerloo where the demand does not exist. I would have thought that the DLR could aim higher, with its shorter trains at gap-free straight platforms. A metro option for Crossrail 2 suggested that similar trains could achieve 40tph, if I recall correctly, perhaps even higher. Could it be terminal capacity and boarding speeds? |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on May 31, 2023 20:17:13 GMT
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Post by spsmiler on May 31, 2023 22:27:02 GMT
Beckton Riverside station with London Overground interchange?
It all sounds very reasonable, although maybe the extension should end at Abbey Wood for Elizabeth line interchange - and fast travel to central London?
Otherwise for all sorts of travel passengers will have to change trains 'several times'.
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Post by Chris M on Jun 1, 2023 1:25:29 GMT
London Overground doesn't go anywhere near Beckton, you might be confusing it with Barking Riverside?
This project seems to be only considering the option of DLR to Thamesmead and improved bus links from Thamesmead to Abbey Wood and other existing stations on the North Kent line, I'd guess because of cost. Passive provision for an extension is probably the best we can hope for.
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 3, 2023 21:01:53 GMT
London Overground doesn't go anywhere near Beckton, you might be confusing it with Barking Riverside? Well they both begin with a capital B ... yes I meant Barking, not Beckton! Apologies for the confusion. |
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Jun 6, 2023 14:20:43 GMT
Beckton Barking Riverside station with London Overground interchange? It all sounds very reasonable, although maybe the extension should end at Abbey Wood for Elizabeth line interchange - and fast travel to central London? The DLR won't go to Barking Riverside - it crosses under the river after Beckton Riverside. They're still leaving open the possibility of an Overground extension to Thamesmead, however it looks like it isn't being considered at the moment because it would cost more and offer less trains per hour. As for DLR extensions, ianvisits said there's a possibility of an extension through Thamesmead towards Belvedere. I think the Elizabeth Line interchange should be handled by the bus transit, which goes to both Woolwich and Abbey Wood. |
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Post by melikepie on Jun 6, 2023 16:20:12 GMT
Don't forget there are proposals to extend the Elizabeth line to Gravesend
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Post by Chris L on Jun 6, 2023 17:58:38 GMT
Don't forget there are proposals to extend the Elizabeth line to Gravesend Council dreams not official proposals. |
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Jun 6, 2023 20:20:29 GMT
Don't forget there are proposals to extend the Elizabeth line to Gravesend Council dreams not official proposals. Not really - it was included as a 'potential' Elizabeth Line in the Mayor's 2018 transport strategy. We're probably not getting it anytime soon, but it's definitely possible and being considered. A better example of council dreams would be that wacky loop extension to Thurrock. As melikepie points out, it could connect with Belvedere which may have an Elizabeth Line service in the future. |
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Post by Chris L on Jun 6, 2023 20:27:26 GMT
Council dreams not official proposals. Not really - it was included as a 'potential' Elizabeth Line in the Mayor's 2018 transport strategy. We're probably not getting it anytime soon, but it's definitely possible and being considered. A better example of council dreams would be that wacky loop extension to Thurrock. As melikepie points out, it could connect with Belvedere which may have an Elizabeth Line service in the future. Perhaps I should have said workable proposals. Physical barriers and the fact that the design of the trains did not include dual voltage. |
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Jun 16, 2023 19:27:29 GMT
TfL have submitted their Strategic Outline Case to the government and created a website for the DLR extension proposal to Thamesmead. This includes (website quote): As for when we may see this, the website states that, with government capital funding, construction can begin as early as 2028, aiming for an opening in the early 2030s. Seems like quite an optimistic estimate. |
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Feb 5, 2024 18:08:57 GMT
TfL have started a consultation on the DLR extension to Thamesmead. The proposed extension splits off from the Beckton branch after Gallions Reach, stops at a new station in Beckton Riverside, crosses the Thames in a tunnel, and terminates at a new station in Thamesmead. TfL said they considered and ruled out (for now) enhanced bus services, a new tram service, extending the Overground from Barking Riverside, and extending the DLR beyond Thamesmead. However, there is planned passive provision to extend the line beyond Thamesmead, possibly to Belvedere or Bexley. There is confirmation of a bus transit scheme, running from Woolwich to Abbey Wood via Thamesmead using bus priority lanes, that will be consulted upon later and could arrive before the DLR extension during the early stages of development. There is also mention of removing safeguarding for the Thames Gateway Bridge, which TfL currently has no plans to deliver, if the extension goes ahead. All the information above and more (including maps of the proposed route - one day I'm going to learn how to post images on this forum) can be found at the consultation page here: haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/dlr-extension |
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 5, 2024 23:18:44 GMT
This tweet includes the Overgound extension from Barking Riverside - something that I was told would be impossible as the station is too low for a bridge over the Thames and too high for a tunnel below the Thames.
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Feb 6, 2024 0:01:40 GMT
Development of the Barking Riverside extension project claimed to provide for a possible future extension across the river, I thought on a bridge. That may have been lost as an economy measure in the later stages of the project.
The notes on alternatives considered state that an extension of heavy rail from Barking Riverside to Thamesmead, at higher cost than the DLR extension, could only offer 4tph compared with up to 15tph on the DLR, would not serve Beckton Riverside, and would not connect to major employment centres.
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Post by greatkingrat on Feb 6, 2024 10:07:04 GMT
If the Overground was extended, I think the current Riverside station would have to be closed and replaced by a new one, just like Island Gardens DLR was.
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Feb 6, 2024 10:18:38 GMT
This tweet includes the Overground extension from Barking Riverside - something that I was told would be impossible as the station is too low for a bridge over the Thames and too high for a tunnel below the Thames. I think the maps produced include Barking Riverside to show all the available transport in the area. And the other map shows routes that were considered but ultimately rejected, including extensions beyond Barking Riverside. Here's what they've said about it in the consultation: It looks like in addition to having to redo Barking Riverside station, they're also concerned about the frequency and making sure Beckton Riverside is served as well. |
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Post by Chris L on Feb 7, 2024 7:43:35 GMT
Planning consent has been granted for up to 1,250 new homes in Belvedere but TfL do not think an extension is needed yet.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 7, 2024 22:41:40 GMT
Even thinking of rebuilding Barking Riverside station is absurd - the station is what, two years old? Surely it should have been built 'future proof', by which I mean with an extension over the Thames in mind.
Maybe it will be better to just extend the Hammersmith & City and leave the Overground station 'as-is'? (Also instead of extending the DLR, which also has lower capacity as well as less potential for a truly rapid-transit' fast service).
This would also make a more frequent service easier to arrange!
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Post by greatkingrat on Feb 8, 2024 1:21:26 GMT
Absolutely no chance, unless you want to completely rebuild Barking Station from scratch!
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Mar 11, 2024 0:28:02 GMT
FoI request 4050-2324 on 4 March 2024 revealed the Strategic Outline Case dated May 2023 together with both long and short option assessments. Those considered included the Hammersmith & City from Barking, with either new tunneled platforms or tunnelling from the sidings area. As stated above, extensions beyond Barking Riverside require a new tunneled station there, but heavy rail options could not compete with a DLR extension. Also considered were the previous proposal for a DLR branch to Dagenham Dock and a tunneled approach to Barking town centre, not included in the final options.
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Post by joshua on Jul 21, 2024 12:50:20 GMT
The most likely service pattern is Tower Gateway to Beckton and Canning Town or Stratford International to Thamesmead (or vice versa) Would you have a Beckton to Thamesmead service as well? Also is there a plan to resite Tower Gateway station on the Bank Branch to allow all trains to run to Bank and therefore increase capacity or has this plan been scrapped? |
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Post by revupminster on Jul 22, 2024 5:56:53 GMT
The most likely service pattern is Tower Gateway to Beckton and Canning Town or Stratford International to Thamesmead (or vice versa) Would you have a Beckton to Thamesmead service as well? Also is there a plan to resite Tower Gateway station on the Bank Branch to allow all trains to run to Bank and therefore increase capacity or has this plan been scrapped? I seem to remember when the Bank extension was built a site was set aside to allow a Tower Gateway replacement station on the extension. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 22, 2024 14:13:33 GMT
Whether the extension will be built with a junction that allows direct Beckton-Thamesmead services is not a level of detail I've seen, but last high-level maps I recall implied they wouldn't be. If they are possible then they will definitely happen at some point, given that every other physically possible DLR service has been run at some point (e.g. during engineering works or special events). Whether they will feature as a regular part of the normal timetable will depend on rolling stock availability, demand level and interchange capacity at Gallions Reach.
Regarding moving Tower Gateway to the Bank branch, I've seen the claim about a straight section being left multiple times but I don't recall ever seeing it officially stated. I recall reading a least one operator say they are sceptical that it was ever a thing but they're not a reliable source. Although it may (I don't remember) have featured in various outline proposals/aspirational documents, I am not aware of anything that could be described as a plan. There are certainly no publicly-known current plans and it is not part of any projects or proposals related to eastern extensions.
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Aug 3, 2024 10:00:26 GMT
The report for the DLR extension consultation has been published: haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/29361/widgets/83875/documents/65970The responses were overwhelmingly positive, so TfL have said they will "progress with work to develop the DLR extension to Beckton Riverside and Thamesmead" and "progress the development of an interim Outline Business Case (OBC), with work anticipated to be completed in spring 2025". The consultation gives a bit of information about the future of the service to Beckton station: it will remain open, it won't have direct service to Thamesmead, but the service split between Beckton and Thamesmead hasn't been decided yet |
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