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Post by ianhardy on Feb 22, 2023 20:52:10 GMT
Does anyone know what the SSR Engineering Work is that is taking place this weekend 25th & 26th February 2023, with the District Line terminating at Hammersmith from the west, how do the empty trains get from platform 4 to platform 1?
Also with the Circle Line only running from Tower Hill to Hammersmith via Kings Cross, does that mean that the centre platform at Tower Hill and the new crossovers at the eastern end are being used?
Many thanks
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 22, 2023 21:47:15 GMT
Track, drainage and other civils works taking place at multiple locations within the closure area.
After de-training at Hammersmith, eastbound District line services will run empty via West Kensington to reverse and re-enter service at Hammersmith on the westbound.
Circle line services will be indeed reversing off platform 2 at Tower Hill via the added points east of the station that were commissioned last year.
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Post by ianhardy on Feb 22, 2023 21:57:49 GMT
Many thanks for the information.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 25, 2023 23:30:57 GMT
well that is some more rare track done ... today I travelled on the new tracks at the eastern end of Tower Hill
On its outside my Cirxle line train still said that it was travelling via Victoria
but on the inside - see tweet below!
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Feb 26, 2023 0:58:27 GMT
So the outside and inside indicators have a different source? What do the platform describers on the Met side show? Can they display Embankment or South Kensington?
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Post by t697 on Feb 26, 2023 11:50:53 GMT
well that is some more rare track done ... today I travelled on the new tracks at the eastern end of Tower Hill On its outside my Cirxle line train still said that it was travelling via Victoria but on the inside - see tweet below! The tweet isn't appearing for me for some reason. The Outer Rail Circle trips from Hammersmith or Edgware Road terminating at Tower Hill should show 'via King's Cross St. Pancras' outside and 'via King's Cross St. Pancras and Liverpool Street' in the saloons as far as Euston Square, then change to the simple Tower Hill destination. Edit: Ah, found the tweet on another device. Also just travelled in and witnessed same today. It shouldn't do 'via [blank] and [blank]. Some lessons to learn about using the Disruption Messaging facility at the Service Control Centre I think. |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Feb 26, 2023 16:43:32 GMT
The so-called Circle line trains reversing in the middle platform at Tower Hill over the weekend of 25/26 February 2023 will not do a full Circle. Engineering Work between South Kensington and Edgware Road means they have to go to Hammersmith via King’s Cross and back to Tower Hill via Aldgate.
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Post by Chris L on Feb 26, 2023 18:46:51 GMT
The so-called Circle line trains reversing in the middle platform at Tower Hill over the weekend of 25/26 February 2023 will not do a full Circle. Engineering Work between South Kensington and Edgware Road means they have to go to Hammersmith via King’s Cross and back to Tower Hill via Aldgate. The trains were running only between Hammersmith & Tower Hill. On departure from Tower Hill the indicators inside the trains were showing via Liverpool Street and King's Cross. The lack of temporary signage at Tower Hill was causing problems this morning with a lot of people on a train on platform 2 not knowing where the train was going. Covering the westbound platform line diagram on the platform would have helped. |
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Post by lutn on Feb 26, 2023 20:16:27 GMT
The lack of temporary signage at Tower Hill was causing problems this morning with a lot of people on a train on platform 2 not knowing where the train was going. Covering the westbound platform line diagram on the platform would have helped. People on the west of the District line were also confused that the DMIs were showing "West Kensington" (probably since the train was programmed to go there anyway) instead of Hammersmith.  |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Feb 26, 2023 22:54:42 GMT
From memory there's no Hammersmith destination available for Eastbound District line trains - West Kensington is probably the closest available.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 26, 2023 23:53:49 GMT
From memory there's no Hammersmith destination available for Eastbound District line trains - West Kensington is probably the closest available. Since the trains were going there to reverse it would probably have been better for them to stay in public service |
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 26, 2023 23:55:16 GMT
The tweet isn't appearing for me for some reason. The Outer Rail Circle trips from Hammersmith or Edgware Road terminating at Tower Hill should show 'via King's Cross St. Pancras' outside and 'via King's Cross St. Pancras and Liverpool Street' in the saloons as far as Euston Square, then change to the simple Tower Hill destination. Edit: Ah, found the tweet on another device. Also just travelled in and witnessed same today. It shouldn't do 'via [blank] and [blank]. Some lessons to learn about using the Disruption Messaging facility at the Service Control Centre I think. Try this - to make this link work you will need to copy this to a web browser and fill the gap between the letters t and u in the word 'status' btw, thanks for the additional information, alas what you say should have happened was not what did happen. twitter.com/citytransportin/stat us/1629612987630665729 ----------------------------- I was going to make a little longer film but the clock beat me, so here is a bare minimum 'two scenes' YouTube video. ------------------------------ How often will trains make this move? Will it happen at other times (eg: Sunday mornings) or just when track works close part of the line? |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Feb 27, 2023 0:35:36 GMT
When night tube services start on the sub-surface lines, this looks like an ideal move to me to avoid duplicating services, with Hammersmith to Tower Hill linking with Richmond to Barking/Upminster, and Wimbledon to Edgware Road covering the west side of the Circle Line. Tower Hill has step-free platform access.
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Post by lutn on Feb 27, 2023 0:46:19 GMT
From memory there's no Hammersmith destination available for Eastbound District line trains - West Kensington is probably the closest available. Since the trains were going there to reverse it would probably have been better for them to stay in public service It’s a good idea but I think there are more staff at Hammersmith to clear the trains than West Kensington. Sometimes there is only 1 member of staff there. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 27, 2023 4:14:04 GMT
How often will trains make this move? Will it happen at other times (eg: Sunday mornings) or just when track works close part of the line? during peak periods if platform 2 is unoccupied, westbound trains can (and do) be routed via this way. Since the trains were going there to reverse it would probably have been better for them to stay in public service It’s a good idea but I think there are more staff at Hammersmith to clear the trains than West Kensington. Sometimes there is only 1 member of staff there. Unfortunately there were no staff on the platform assisting the driver. West Kensington (as usual) had no onward connection, replacement buses are not provided, so therefore passengers would mingle while trains performed the reverse move without a monitor view of the platform. |
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Post by t697 on Feb 27, 2023 6:53:55 GMT
From memory there's no Hammersmith destination available for Eastbound District line trains - West Kensington is probably the closest available. S stock does have Hammersmith EB available as a destination. Left in for just this type of situation even though the Barons Court siding can't be accessed by S stock now. Trip 856 Hammersmith from EBY or Trip 857 Hammersmith from RMD.
There is no ATC equivalent, but of course no ATC west of Barons Court just now anyway.
Were the trains displaying Hammersmith as destination?
Edit: And continuing the debate about the Circle Outer Rail trains, I'd have expected Trip 650, Tower Hill Circle from HMS to be used. Unclear whether it was. The YouTube video suggests otherwise since the train is arriving at Tower Hill showing Circle line via Victoria.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 27, 2023 7:05:15 GMT
Were the trains displaying Hammersmith as destination? Yes, the trains were showing the correct Hammersmith destination. I believe Tom and others are referring to the platform equipment which continued to show “West Kensington” all weekend. |
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Post by t697 on Feb 27, 2023 7:18:26 GMT
Yes it does seem a bit silly that a dot matrix platform display which in principle could display anything alphanumeric that fits the available space can't display Hammersmith due to limitations elsewhere in the the chain controlling it. Not as though the DMI has the limitations of an old light box display.
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Post by t697 on Feb 27, 2023 18:15:28 GMT
The problems with CIS on the Outer Rail trains terminating at Tower Hill are being investigated with a view to developing how not to have the attenuated scripts and incorrect displays happen again with this or similar special services. Will probably take a little while.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Feb 27, 2023 18:53:29 GMT
S stock does have Hammersmith EB available as a destination. Sorry - should have clarified within the signalling system, not what the train can do! Yes it does seem a bit silly that a dot matrix platform display which in principle could display anything alphanumeric that fits the available space can't display Hammersmith due to limitations elsewhere in the the chain controlling it. Not as though the DMI has the limitations of an old light box display. Yes you're right - I don't understand why the 'West Ken Special' TD doesn't convert (or more accurately wasn't converted) to Hammersmith for DMI purposes. |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Feb 27, 2023 19:16:26 GMT
I guess reversing at West Kensington with passengers present would have taken longer. Isn't the train required to pull forward from the platform stopping position before changing ends?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 27, 2023 19:23:19 GMT
Yes, the train pulls forward to an “S7” diamond mounted on a pole, 4-cars out of the platform.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Feb 28, 2023 2:29:12 GMT
Yes you're right - I don't understand why the 'West Ken Special' TD doesn't convert (or more accurately wasn't converted) to Hammersmith for DMI purposes. The West Ken Special TD was for eastbound Engineering Trains ( Ballast trains ) going into Lillie Bridge Depot via West Kensington. |
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Post by Tom on Feb 28, 2023 7:31:13 GMT
Indeed it was, but when Lillie Bridge started stabling passenger trains again it was used to indicate Lillie Bridge Stablers. There was certainly some work done on the TDs east of Earl's Court to convert the West Ken Special into something useable, I'll do some digging in old wiring diagrams today if I get a chance.
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Post by t697 on Mar 3, 2023 19:23:58 GMT
The missing 'via' stations have been tracked down! A few extra Circle trips were added to the CIS back in 2018 including the Outer Rail ones terminating at Tower Hill. AS mentioned up thread they should change from 'via ...' to 'to Tower Hill' after Euston Square. The relevant item in the edit tool wasn't done properly so it carries on with 'via' but with no names programmed to use for those sections.
It'll be sorted the next time there's a worthwhile update to do and meantime, the 'real time messaging' facility can be used to mask it in the saloons for the few times these trips are used in a special service.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 6, 2023 23:14:23 GMT
Its great that the magical mystery tour S stock Circle line train will not be running again ... and that instead trains travelling to Tower Hill via Kings Cross and Liverpool Street will also state a destination.
However, what is done, is done, and as my tweet earlier in this thread suggests, I have video footage of a train that says it is travelling 'to' 'via' 'and' but does not state where these locations are!
I will be quite candid, I could not believe my eyes when I boarded the train and saw that scrolling message. I pondered whether I was in a world class city or a 3rd world city. Its just not something I ever expected from London Transport, although when I think of the confusing use of two different paper route maps and bear in mind that this is a TfL service and not the LT of olden years so I gain a different perspective of the situation.
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Post by t697 on Mar 7, 2023 0:08:05 GMT
1st world problems eh?
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Post by castlebar on Mar 7, 2023 10:20:35 GMT
If people are "confused" by messages on S stock, perhaps they shouldn't be out on their own. Never used to hear of people being "confused" before it became fashionable.
60 years ago people travelled around the UndergrounD without any confusion, and there wasn't anything like as much signage then.
But people could read maps in those distant days
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Post by Chris L on Mar 7, 2023 10:49:29 GMT
If people are "confused" by messages on S stock, perhaps they shouldn't be out on their own. Never used to hear of people being "confused" before it became fashionable. 60 years ago people travelled around the UndergrounD without any confusion, and there wasn't anything like as much signage then. But people could read maps in those distant days When I was at Tower Hill on the Sunday a lot of non Londoners were confused by a train that was going to go eastwards was standing in a platform clearly signed as westbound with line diagrams to match. Back in the day decent temporary signage would have covered this out. The people who looked after this have all been paid off with the excuse that local staff and posters produced on their plotter. The only "help" I saw was a handwritten whiteboard notice in the passage to the eastbound platform. No announcements on the platform and no staff. The driver made an announcement just before closing the doors. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 1, 2024 21:09:26 GMT
Mod comment [goldenarrow] - Posts discussing the merits and pitfalls of multi-route Car Line Diagrams in their various forms have been split into a dedicated thread within General Questions and Comments here.
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