Circle Line Suspended 4 Jan.23

This would probably sit better on the SSR group board given that you've mixed the District line with the Circle line in your questions...

Anyway, the Circle line suspension yesterday had nothing to do with the RMT strike on Network Rail. Edgware Road based drivers do not drive on the District line to Wimbledon; they only drive on the Circle and Hammersmith & City lines. The Circle line suspension was entirely down to a lack of available drivers. The reasons are varied and not industrial relations related. Service Control took the decision to prioritise the Hammersmith & City line with the resources available.

I'm not familiar with the track layout at Aldgate but the Circle line serves it, so reversing there wouldn't be odd for the Circle line. Mind you, just because the destination was Aldgate its not automatically the case that the train reversed there. It may have continued on empty, for example. On the District line we have late night trains from Richmond & Ealing Broadway that terminate at Hammersmith but continue on empty to West Kensington where they then go into Lillie Bridge sidings.

With regard to the minor delays status on the Richmond branch, this was due to a requested service reduction in relation to the qualifications of whoever was manning Richmond signal cabin. There's no implication of anything unsafe going on; it was most likely a manager stepping into the breech to offer at least some kind of service. I imagine its more about ensuring the workload was manageable for someone who doesn't work the cabin on a daily basis so that they don't end up becoming overwhelmed.

It is possible for an inner rail train to reverse back into platforms 1-3, from beyond platform 4.

Thats an interesting signalling panel photo

...and many a time (when a schoolboy on my way home) I would be on an eastbound H&C (Met in those days) train waiting at signals 34 or 35 (EH, EK) whilst two or even three Districts were allowed to go past signals 37 and 38 (Hf and HK) first.

I can't ever recall being on a District train that was halted after Tower Hill to let a Met train from Liverpool St go first!

Technically it's still a stencil. I note my attempts to add 29^B points and to paint out St. Mary's curve on the far right - we ended up having to use tippex as the paint wasn't suitable!

A classic case today, both Circle and Hammersmith and City lines struggling with lack of available train operators.

I don’t know if the situation has got worse but I would expect if there were sufficient operators then the Hammersmith and City would operate with a reduced service and the Circle would be suspended again.

It would be interesting to know what the actual situation was from those on the ground (or perhaps it should be under it!).

Thanks for responses. Withdrawing Circle Line means no service from Gloucester Road to High Street and from Tower Hill to Aldgate and v.v., whereas withdrawing H&C means losing Liverpool Street to Aldgate East. While my perspective is always from a hospital (also mentioned above) client step-free access POV, (e.g., patients from Victoria to St Mary’s at Paddington, or medical London clinics [from Marylebone Road/Euston Road to Barts] or mainline stations to the Royal London at Whitechapel and withdrawal of either service has its drawbacks, I think withdrawal of the H&C could be preferable and would be the least inconvenient, as a.) lifts at Tower Hill permit transfer between OR and District eastbound services, b.) eastbound H&C passengers can be advised at lift-accessible Paddington, Farringdon, Barbican (Long Lane Barts) and Liverpool Street to use the Elizabeth Line to Whitechapel and c.) all stations including Aldgate IR and OR, remain served. I apologise in advance, will someone remind me to change my comment when Crossrail 2 opens!

As a child, I remember when the H&C terminated at Whitechapel off peak, and that on days before bank holidays Farringdon was the terminus of the Wimbledon District service. Any other ‘grey beards’ with similar recollections? What was really confusing for my young eyes was that the strip maps in the Q-Stock (an amalgam/mishmash of the G, K, L, M and N Stocks) showing ‘District and Circle Lines’ were quite different to those on the Met Hammersmith and City section, which showed ‘Metropolitan and Circle Lines’, hence my inculcated mindset when making the original post.

Circle and H&C frequencies are scheduled to be the same.

taylor I think you make a valid point which deserves to be formally raised with TfL for a considered answer.


I recall the Putney Bridge trains being extended from Edgware Road to Liverpool Street bay road, but they may have also reached Aldgate. This was back in the day when the Circle Line was still a service provided jointly by both the Metropolitan and District Lines, so some District crews were trained for the route. Mind you, it was limited to a couple of District Line trains on both inner and outer rail on Sundays only. Less noticable as COP stock, but occasionally an R stock! These days they are not trained east of Edgware Road.

Good point, although they could just run just those trips on H&C, and the rest on the Circle. I wonder if demand is also higher out to Barking, other than the Circle lower corners.

Regarding the accessibility issue discussed earlier there is now cross platform interchange at Whitechapel (now it’s one large island platform) so by travelling one extra stop, the change between District and Hammersmith and City trains is easier - admittedly with an additional stop.

Sadly not, access to centre platform 2 is only from South Kensington.
Reversing at Gloucester Road is only available in platform 3 (eastbound/Inner rail)

I’ve been away in Vienna and took time out to look at the how future integration of the U2 and U5 lines is progressing. Major rebuilding of part of the U2 has caused its Ring section to be closed for more than two years. But the transport authority has made sure that through journeys from Karlsplatz around the U2 segment of the ring and v.v. are assured. And that’s the point here. Removing two valuable Circle Line through connections is, I believe not a traffic demand driven decision but one of operating convenience. I think the patients and medical professionals who are really inconvenienced by the removal of the Tower Hill to Liverpool Street and Gloucester Rd to High St. K. segments, would far rather wait another ten minutes if at least a 3 tph could be assured across all segments. As I mentioned up thread, with the E-Line now running from Paddington to Whitechapel I think, if really necessary, the discontinuance of H&C would prove a lesser inconvenience.

Anyway this can all be evaluated and proven. With Oyster/Contactless it is now possible to underpin any such traffic driven decision accurately by measuring the number of passengers journeys between a pair of stations via a particular route. For passengers joining/leaving part of the described SSR routes via one of the main-line stations or other interchanges (direct or OSI) joining/leaving points for the journey between the pair of SSR stations involved can be imputed. Consequently, it is straight forward to accurately determine the traffic demand, for example from Liverpool St. to Aldgate E. or from High St. K to Gloucester Rd for any day and any time of day. If anyone would like the maths on pair-counting please pm me.

I’ll try and post a brief translation of what is happening in Vienna under the General Questions and Comments section.

The Victoria line northbound was showing the same message early afternoon today (25 March), despite it being shown as good service everywhere else I noticed during the day. I only travelled on the line for one stop (Green Park to Oxford Circus) though so I can't rule out it being a single train with a glitch.