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Post by jimbo on Dec 19, 2023 20:03:04 GMT
Does that suggest that no improvement in cancellations is expected over the next nine months? Must be the long-planned service reduction to recognise demand diverted to Elizabeth Line, with Ealing service reduced by short-workings to boost central area.
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Post by xtmw on Dec 23, 2023 14:06:01 GMT
Does that suggest that no improvement in cancellations is expected over the next nine months? I've just received an email from TfL regarding this: I'm almost certain it's just communication to the customers, from a commuter perspective, this is the first explanation we have had on why the service is suffering so badly. It's mainly just been 'Severe delays due to a shortage of trains' or 'Severe delays due to train cancellations'. The service has improved over the last few days, I've been using the line for the past few days and the most I've had to wait for a train in the central section is 5 minutes. Well done to the engineers who are trying to maintain a service despite the circumstances. |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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Post by towerman on Dec 24, 2023 12:24:54 GMT
Are the motors removed from the CLIP trains being used to keep the rest of the fleet going?
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Post by scheduler on Dec 25, 2023 21:25:16 GMT
Maybe it would be better to order new trains for the Central Line, by adding on to the end of the Picc Line and Bakerloo Line orders. Oh wait, that'll take 3 years or more before delivery could begin. Central Line service is indeed annoyingly unpredictable, especially for those of us that live along it. At least let's have it so the only reason for cancelling trains is stock unavailability and not no crew available.
They should have ordered replacement for the Central Line fleet along with the Picc and Bakerloo Line trains, and they should have been rolling out the new Central Line fleet next year, but delay, COVID, delay, delay and we are now in the mess that was predicted in over 5 years ago.
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Post by jimbo on Dec 25, 2023 23:36:55 GMT
The CLIP project is reported a £500m. project to complete in four years with maybe a 15 year life. The Picc new trains is a £3,050m. project for 40 year life to complete in four years, so maybe not so much value for money! The Bakerloo trains is a £1,627m. project which has no funding at present! Is it too late to ask Santa? No wonder Government waited until 18th December to announce the next funding agreement!
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Post by aslefshrugged on Dec 27, 2023 5:35:06 GMT
Are the motors removed from the CLIP trains being used to keep the rest of the fleet going? I have heard that was the plan but because CLIP is behind schedule there is now a shortage of motors |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Dec 27, 2023 5:43:59 GMT
Maybe it would be better to order new trains for the Central Line, by adding on to the end of the Picc Line and Bakerloo Line orders. Oh wait, that'll take 3 years or more before delivery could begin. Central Line service is indeed annoyingly unpredictable, especially for those of us that live along it. At least let's have it so the only reason for cancelling trains is stock unavailability and not no crew available. They should have ordered replacement for the Central Line fleet along with the Picc and Bakerloo Line trains, and they should have been rolling out the new Central Line fleet next year, but delay, COVID, delay, delay and we are now in the mess that was predicted in over 5 years ago. The original 2014 plan was for new stock/signalling on the Piccadilly (2023-25), Bakerloo (2025-27), Central and Waterloo & City (2027-32) At the moment its just new stock on the Piccadilly (2025-27???) and absolutely no idea when/if the rest will happen |
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Post by jimbo on Dec 27, 2023 7:37:24 GMT
Are the motors removed from the CLIP trains being used to keep the rest of the fleet going? I have heard that was the plan but because CLIP is behind schedule there is now a shortage of motors I guess they will work on the most troublesome 2-car units first, which won't yield many useful spares! |
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Post by zbang on Dec 28, 2023 17:14:21 GMT
Have there been a public notices about motor failures? A quick search didn't turn up anything for me.
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Post by xtmw on Dec 28, 2023 19:12:25 GMT
I've only received an email about it, other members have reported posters around stations but I haven't seen anything.
The most I've seen is a whiteboard at a station saying 'CENTRAL LINE MINOR DELAYS DUE TO A SHORTAGE OF TRAINS'
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Post by chilsie on Dec 29, 2023 0:56:09 GMT
Have there been a public notices about motor failures? A quick search didn't turn up anything for me. I saw a poster similar to this at White City yesterday, alluding to the motors being replaced leading to trains being taken out of service leading to minor delays on the line. |
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Post by zbang on Dec 29, 2023 1:37:44 GMT
Thanks, I'm more thinking of something on-line I can see from here.
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 29, 2023 13:59:17 GMT
Thank goodness some Central London passengers have an alternative option - otherwise the Central line would probably be overwhelmed
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Post by aslefshrugged on Dec 31, 2023 9:00:32 GMT
Found this in my inbox from the Head of Customer Operations Central, Waterloo & City and Victoria lines (22 Dec 2023)
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Post by xtmw on Jan 17, 2024 22:24:58 GMT
The service has gone down the drain again (  ), severe delays being advertised for a few days ago. I used the line tonight, there were noticeable gaps but it wasn't anything major. Is there any update on the current situation with the motors? Could the Central Line be the new misery line? |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 19, 2024 11:47:52 GMT
Last week we had 55 trains during the peak, should have been 78. This week one of my colleagues told me had to take two trains out of service during a single shift at the weekend after both suffered flashovers.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 25, 2024 8:49:21 GMT
Its getting worse. I spoke to a West Ruislip "early" yesterday who told me that only six out of 16 trains were brought into service from Ruislip depot that morning and that earlier this week we had just 44 trains during the morning peak
If that wasn't bad enough while doing CDP/ATOR yesterday I heard that there are problems with the new AC motors as the test train that has been running along the Hainault - Woodford loop got "gapped" in either the North Neck or the South Neck at Hainault depot
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Post by Chris L on Jan 25, 2024 10:33:27 GMT
When changing from the Elizabeth line to the Northern line at Tottenham Court Road at lunchtime earlier in the week I heard an announcement blaming delays on the Central line to a shortage of train operators.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 25, 2024 11:17:50 GMT
When changing from the Elizabeth line to the Northern line at Tottenham Court Road at lunchtime earlier in the week I heard an announcement blaming delays on the Central line to a shortage of train operators. They should come to Leytonstone TCD, there are loads of us sat around because our trains have been cancelled Yesterday on CDP/ATOR at Hainault we had to do everything in the training room as there wasn't a train available in the depot. Earlier this week the training manager did get a two car unit to play with. |
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 25, 2024 11:36:57 GMT
If that wasn't bad enough while doing CDP/ATOR yesterday I heard that there are problems with the new AC motors as the test train that has been running along the Hainault - Woodford loop got "gapped" in either the North Neck or the South Neck at Hainault depot To me, gapped is when a train doesn't have any pickup shoes on the 3rd rail, surely the shoegear hasn't moved? Or is it a case that a car was on the juice but something about the motor meant it wouldn't move? |
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Post by PiccNT on Jan 25, 2024 12:55:38 GMT
CDP/ATOR - Continuous Development Programme / Annual Test of Rules, basically an annual rules and stock defect refresher. Was 5 days. Since Covid, now called CV - Competence Verification, as CDP but condensed into one day.
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Post by xtmw on Jan 25, 2024 14:14:17 GMT
I heard an announcement blaming delays on the Central line to a shortage of train operators. Have they run out of excuses to blame it on the train operators when the whole situation isn't their fault ? EDIT Just had this email from TfL |
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Jan 25, 2024 15:06:32 GMT
If that wasn't bad enough while doing CDP/ATOR yesterday As noted, these are pre Covid terms.......ATOR must be about 10 years out of date now! The current version of annual refresher training is CV or Competence Verification. To me, gapped is when a train doesn't have any pickup shoes on the 3rd rail, surely the shoegear hasn't moved? Or is it a case that a car was on the juice but something about the motor meant it wouldn't move? Firstly, we use 3rd and 4th rails for traction current on LU! Now whilst I'll grant you S stock doesn't run on the Central line, nor is it in anyway similar from a technical stand point, its possible to gap an S stock and still have pick up shoes in contact with the traction current rails - so the notion that being gapped means all pick up shoes off current needs to be gotten out of your head. An S stock can be gapped if both driving motor car's (the outer ends) have their pick up shoes off current as they directly feed the compressors at each end of the train. No compressors = no air; and that = no movement. I know the 92's on the Central are made up of 4x two car units, but beyond that...... |
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Post by t697 on Jan 25, 2024 20:16:31 GMT
Before S stock gets singled out too far, just a note to say that most LUL passenger trains now can only run a compressor with at least one DM car on juice as most only have 2 compressors. 92TS is something of an exception, having a compressor on each 2 car unit.
It is (at last) the practice to take the need for a DM car to be on juice when doing gapping assessments on relevant lines.
A train like S stock can still move with just a non-DM shoegear car on juice, but not if the Main Line air supply has depleted and caused the emergency brake to apply.
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Post by occasionaltraveller on Jan 25, 2024 21:04:56 GMT
"Tfl says it has introduced an amended timetable for the next few weeks on the Central line due to a shortage of trains. Motors on the trains are failing. Replacement have been purchased and are being placed but the underlying problem is the trains are over 30 years old."
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Post by xtmw on Jan 25, 2024 21:37:30 GMT
Errr, what?
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rincew1nd
Administrator
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 25, 2024 21:39:52 GMT
To me, gapped is when a train doesn't have any pickup shoes on the 3rd rail, surely the shoegear hasn't moved? Or is it a case that a car was on the juice but something about the motor meant it wouldn't move? Firstly, we use 3rd and 4th rails for traction current on LU! , due to reason my head is full of 3rd rail right now! Now whilst I'll grant you S stock doesn't run on the Central line, nor is it in anyway similar from a technical stand point, its possible to gap an S stock and still have pick up shoes in contact with the traction current rails - so the notion that being gapped means all pick up shoes off current needs to be gotten out of your head. OK, I take that point and understand it. I'm still not sure why different traction motors would be a factor in a train getting gapped though? |
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
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Post by gefw on Jan 25, 2024 22:38:43 GMT
Now whilst I'll grant you S stock doesn't run on the Central line, nor is it in anyway similar from a technical stand point, its possible to gap an S stock and still have pick up shoes in contact with the traction current rails - so the notion that being gapped means all pick up shoes off current needs to be gotten out of your head. OK, I take that point and understand it. I'm still not sure why different traction motors would be a factor in a train getting gapped though? Correct that the motors themselves may not be the cause, but the whole traction control system has been replaced and I believe a lot of the general train/cab control wiring, inter car jumpers, load shedding controls etc have been reworked as part of the refurb |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 27, 2024 13:26:59 GMT
It has been reporting that new Central line timetables were discussed by management and unions at Trains Functional Council yesterday, they should be implemented soon and will be in place for abut a year.
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Post by pgb on Jan 27, 2024 19:32:56 GMT
Purely out of interest - how many trains were missing from this afternoon around 1645ish? I used the line from Bank to Holborn and the gaps were rather lengthy. Just interested to know how many missing trains does it take to create ten minute gaps for example (there were quite a few of them as well!)
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), severe delays being advertised for a few days ago. I used the line tonight, there were noticeable gaps but it wasn't anything major.
