metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Aug 3, 2022 22:20:32 GMT
Just a very gentle reminder to ensure we keep this thread both relevant and realistic. Thanks
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Post by pgb on Aug 4, 2022 5:34:48 GMT
Some heritage railways do provide a commuter service (The Romney, Hythe and Dimchurch line is one example) Didn't realise the RHDR did that? |
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Post by d7666 on Aug 4, 2022 12:16:45 GMT
Some heritage railways do provide a commuter service (The Romney, Hythe and Dimchurch line is one example) Didn't realise the RHDR did that? They do not. Ceased doing that years ago; mid 201x probably. At least that is when the schools trains stopped; not sure they were more than schools trains anyway. The line is completely closed SX ~October to ~Easter AFAIK. Even the busiest summer days there are no advertised trains before 09:30 and none after 17:25, which does not offer many commuting journey oppurtunities beyond a limited range of part time summer only travel. If they do, where is this advertised ? I am struggling to think of more than one herItage railway that DOES provide a commuter service i.e. one that is DAILY, SX, year round, to suit basIc office work|office|etc times, and advertised. That one I can think of is Hythe Pier RaIlway, and even then only if one considers it heritage, which is a fairly vague description. It is a commericial operation, but that alone does not rule it out being 'heritage'. ((e.g. Torbay Steam Railway, or whatever they call themselves these days, is a commercial operation; surely no-one will argue it is anything but 'heritage'.))  not a lot to do with Epping railways ! But I suggest that no heritage railway seems to offer a 'normal' commuter timetable to allow 'normal working hours' is indicative that it ain't easy or cheap. SVR don't do Bewdley | Kidderminster, ELR don't do Ramsbottom | Bury, and so on, and those would be much simpler than Ongar i.e. no DC rails, no ATO, no platform occupation conflict issues, and so on. |
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Post by stapler on Aug 4, 2022 14:24:57 GMT
Just came across a photo of an LT poster taken on Blake Hall Station, 5-4-57 which reads:
An odd man out among London Transport's railways is the steam-hauled shuttle train between Epping and Ongar. Electrification of this line is to be completed during 1957.
At present, Central Line underground trains run as far as Epping. There passengers change for the two-coach steam trains for the six-mile journey to Ongar. The new plan provides initially for a service of 2-car Underground-type electric trains. When the traffic grows, these will be augmented.
Electrification will provide a more economical and efficient service and bring the homely Essex countryside closer to the crowded heart of London.
A pity they never needed augmentation!
Each of the auto-train sets accommodated c160 seated passengers. The standard stock that replaced them about 80, given the large gubbins compartments. What progress!
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Aug 4, 2022 14:59:41 GMT
The two car trains alluded to were the 1935 flat fronted stock. They were lengthened to 3 cars in the later 1950s with a 1927 trailer added between the cars. Sadly it appears traffic didn’t require any further improvements.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 4, 2022 20:40:03 GMT
e.g. Torbay Steam Railway, or whatever they call themselves these days, is a commercial operation; surely no-one will argue it is anything but 'heritage'. I wouldn't help but smile on reading that - that organisation has had so many name changes over the years it's been impossible to keep up. (It's now known as the Dartmouth Steam Railway which is a bit odd as most of the traffic originates at the Paignton end). Interestingly they also ran school services for Churston Grammar School - initially BR ran it on their behalf and then they did it themselves. It lasted for about a year in 1972/73. |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 4, 2022 23:35:04 GMT
One of the criticisms of the electrification of the Epping - Ongar service was that whereas in winter the steam trains were always 'nice and warm' the practise of the tube trains having all their doors wide open whilst at stations made them cold and therefore less attractive places to be.
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Post by brigham on Aug 5, 2022 7:27:23 GMT
A half-hearted electrification in the first place. Replacing an incompatible steam shuttle service with an incompatible electric one.
If they had done the job properly, and extended the Central line to Ongar, then that would be its terminus today.
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Post by Chris L on Aug 5, 2022 7:46:06 GMT
A half-hearted electrification in the first place. Replacing an incompatible steam shuttle service with an incompatible electric one. If they had done the job properly, and extended the Central line to Ongar, then that would be its terminus today. Compared with the other out county sections of lines it would never has carried enough passengers. In my time at London Transport even the Woodford-Hainault service was considered for closure but operational considerations saved it. |
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Post by stapler on Aug 5, 2022 8:59:42 GMT
A half-hearted electrification in the first place. Replacing an incompatible steam shuttle service with an incompatible electric one. If they had done the job properly, and extended the Central line to Ongar, then that would be its terminus today. Compared with the other out county sections of lines it would never has carried enough passengers. In my time at London Transport even the Woodford-Hainault service was considered for closure but operational considerations saved it. It wasn't "out-county" in 1957. Everything north of the Leyton tunnel mouth was in Essex till 31.3.65. |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Aug 6, 2022 21:19:21 GMT
We used to take the bus to the end of the route in Ongar and picnic as a family in the fields, with the steam shuttle regularly puffing back and forth in the background!
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 18, 2022 23:36:21 GMT
One of the criticisms of the electrification of the Epping - Ongar service was that whereas in winter the steam trains were always 'nice and warm' the practise of the tube trains having all their doors wide open whilst at stations made them cold and therefore less attractive places to be. It would not have been much of a problem when the 92 stock arrived. They had the door open/close button feature and it would have remained warm. One thing I miss about the door buttons being used as when new was stations on the outside in the winter, the train stayed warmer because of this. Leytonstone is the worst, especially if it is raining now and the doors are opened whilst a crew change takes place. Yes. But I'd assume if it were to open today, it would require stock to be withdrawn from the current service to accommodate the shuttle service Mod edit [Antharro]: Quote removed. Please be selective about the part of a post you wish to quote rather than the whole post verbatim, particularly if you are replying to the previous post in the thread.Why should stock be withdrawn. There was enough 92 stock purchased to run on the Ongar service. <<Dstock7080: Posts merged>> |
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Post by xtmw on Aug 19, 2022 10:16:18 GMT
One of the criticisms of the electrification of the Epping - Ongar service was that whereas in winter the steam trains were always 'nice and warm' the practise of the tube trains having all their doors wide open whilst at stations made them cold and therefore less attractive places to be. It would not have been much of a problem when the 92 stock arrived. They had the door open/close button feature and it would have remained warm. One thing I miss about the door buttons being used as when new was stations on the outside in the winter, the train stayed warmer because of this. Leytonstone is the worst, especially if it is raining now and the doors are opened whilst a crew change takes place. Yes. But I'd assume if it were to open today, it would require stock to be withdrawn from the current service to accommodate the shuttle service Mod edit [Antharro]: Quote removed. Please be selective about the part of a post you wish to quote rather than the whole post verbatim, particularly if you are replying to the previous post in the thread.Why should stock be withdrawn. There was enough 92 stock purchased to run on the Ongar service. <<Dstock7080: Posts merged>>Oh was there? Sorry, didn't know about that. Apologies if this has already been mentioned but didn't they have a 4 car 92 stock (as a test train) running from Epping - Ongar at one point? Wasn't something mentioned about not having a high voltage? |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 19, 2022 13:40:49 GMT
It would not have been much of a problem when the 92 stock arrived. They had the door open/close button feature and it would have remained warm. One thing I miss about the door buttons being used as when new was stations on the outside in the winter, the train stayed warmer because of this. Leytonstone is the worst, especially if it is raining now and the doors are opened whilst a crew change takes place. The circular nature of tube train doors at their tops means that even passengers fully inside the train (albeit standing near the doorway) get a soaking in heavy rain. Isn't there a 'selective doors close' feature? I remember seeing this being used on C stock, and even managed to film it - eg: at Aldgate in the winter. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 19, 2022 15:06:10 GMT
Isn't there a 'selective doors close' feature? C, D, and 1973 stock all had it - not sure about later stocks. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 19, 2022 15:16:22 GMT
C, D, and 1973 stock all had it - not sure about later stocks. 1983, 1992, 1995 and 1996 too. |
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Post by t697 on Aug 19, 2022 16:38:04 GMT
On the point about enough 92TS being bought to include an Ongar train, I seem to recall the closure plans ran somewhat in parallel with the 92TS programme, so a moot point. I don't recall testing a 4 car there, but 8 car was tested twice. But not as proving for regular use on the branch, it was for development and proving of a refinement to the traction performance at low line voltages generally. Going to Ongar was an easy way of getting the train to the remote end of a single end fed section.
On the point about Selective Close, it doesn't seem to be used much. Is use positively discouraged these days on lines that have it? I recall passengers looking confused when it was used, thinking there might be a door fault.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Aug 20, 2022 6:01:36 GMT
It certainly led to confusion when I last saw it used on a C stock. There was a PA from the train operator but passengers that arrived to the platform later looked baffled!
How often is the selective doors option used on the 1992 stock at somewhere like Epping I wonder?
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Post by xtmw on Aug 20, 2022 11:38:11 GMT
It certainly led to confusion when I last saw it used on a C stock. There was a PA from the train operator but passengers that arrived to the platform later looked baffled! How often is the selective doors option used on the 1992 stock at somewhere like Epping I wonder? Never. I am a user of the Epping branch and have never seen it used. I saw it once, at Leytonstone though. |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 20, 2022 13:49:32 GMT
It certainly led to confusion when I last saw it used on a C stock. There was a PA from the train operator but passengers that arrived to the platform later looked baffled! How often is the selective doors option used on the 1992 stock at somewhere like Epping I wonder? I think I've also seen it used on D and 1973 stocks and the lack of use on many more modern stocks makes me surprised to learn that they too are so equipped. 1992ts had door open and close buttons so I was not expecting it to have selective closing as well. S stock is a world away, but thats partly because of the airconditioning. |
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Post by stapler on Aug 21, 2022 16:26:50 GMT
I have known selective opening/closing used at Leytonstone and Loughton on 92TS in icy weather. Since however we never get winter these days, it's now some years ago.
In the recent inhuman furnace conditions, I pray for long station stops at above ground stations, and have even be tempted to "obstruct the doors and cause delay".
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not a lot to do with Epping railways ! But I suggest that no heritage railway seems to offer a 'normal' commuter timetable to allow 'normal working hours' is indicative that it ain't easy or cheap. SVR don't do Bewdley | Kidderminster, ELR don't do Ramsbottom | Bury, and so on, and those would be much simpler than Ongar i.e. no DC rails, no ATO, no platform occupation conflict issues, and so on.
