metman
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Post by metman on Dec 25, 2007 20:10:19 GMT
Could be, but weren't those trains in blue with yellow fronts from the start? The colour looks uniform (red?). Also didn't they have a red disk on the back when at the trailing end?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2007 20:56:13 GMT
Ahh... perhaps its to celebrate the transfer of the stock to the IOW, and this is the first train off the boat?
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Post by pgb on Dec 25, 2007 21:16:49 GMT
If it is and I'm not saying it is, that would account for that reflection in the window of the cab. Doesn't Ryde Pier Head have a corragated (excuse the spelling!) iron sheet thing between there and the old tramway up the Pier?
Mind you, so does St. Johns Road come to think of it! Ah well,back to the drawing board
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2007 21:26:25 GMT
I think your''re spot on pgb... when I was on the IOW, at the pier head station, there was some sort of corrugated material or summat that looked like what is reflected in the window...
Could this be the last train to be formed of this stock, before the 38ts came over?
I went to the IOW in 1997.
Could also be St Johns Road, beside the depot!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Dec 25, 2007 21:48:32 GMT
Last train would surely have been in NSE livery? And surely they were refurbished on the mainland prior to being sent over there? They would have had yellow fronts from the start, and the double arrow symbol on the side.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2007 22:21:11 GMT
Hmmm, some were painted some into the livery they had when introduced on the Underground...
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Dec 25, 2007 22:25:10 GMT
Unless I am mistaken the stock was painted blue with the double-arrow signs, and yellow ends when delivered in [1967?] off low-loaders.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 25, 2007 22:27:55 GMT
I thought it was only post privatisation that trains on the IOW carried London Transport livery? Standard Stock were long gone by that time.
I'm not convinced this is the IOW. The lighting doesn't feel right for outdoors, and I'm increasingly of the opinion that the lower part of the front left window has been altered. I'm undecided about the upper part.
There is what appears to be an anomaly in the roof line of the train - look directly up from the cab door pillar.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Dec 25, 2007 22:30:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2007 22:32:27 GMT
isle of wight railway
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2007 22:34:48 GMT
Hmm... well done... but not part of the acutal quiz... zip back to the first page of this very thread...
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 25, 2007 22:36:31 GMT
For ease of reference, here is the quiz picture again
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Dec 25, 2007 22:43:22 GMT
I am discounting IofW as I am sure no trains ran with plating over the louvres. However the 1934?? Stock used on the Aldwych Shuttle seems to be identical to the featured unit [with plated-over louvres], so I am also electing for Aldwych, and last Standard Stock train.
I can't see any overhaul date on the front unless that's it just underneath the bottom left light?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 25, 2007 23:00:12 GMT
On the second plated-over louvre from the front, there is a reflection of something. It appears to be a gate or barrier of some type, running at right angles to the reflected lines. If my assumption that the top white line is a platform edge marker, then it looks to be running from the far platform edge to approximately the midpoint and extends vertically to the top of the reflective surface. This could of course just be an optical illusion.
Looking again, I'm not certain there is a person in the right window. The bit at the bottom could be a prominent bit of the controls; the bit on the right could be looking through a window in the far cab door. The large bit looks to be partly in front of and partly behind the bars - the right hand light bit could be another part of a paper (or similary) something covering this grill that has come apart.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2007 23:01:45 GMT
Can I dive in and make a suggestion (which can easily be discounted) that the train is on the old Northern Heights extension on a stock move between East Finchley and Drayton Park. If there was a battery locomotive on the other end it would require an independent tail light at the rear as the train would have no electric supply from the rail. Therefore what you are seeing is the rear of the train and what is a Guard, not a Motorman. What I cannot clearly see to help with my idea is if there is a fourth rail.
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Post by Oracle on Dec 25, 2007 23:07:43 GMT
I am wracking my brain to remember but I am certain that transfers used a battery loco at both ends.
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Post by Chris M on Dec 25, 2007 23:11:45 GMT
Just a thought, could the decorations not be marking the opening or starting of something, but the ending of it. The last train perhaps?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2007 23:14:41 GMT
I am wracking my brain to remember but I am certain that transfers used a battery loco at both ends. I have the book "Northern wastes" which has a couple of photos of stock moves with only one battery loco.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Dec 25, 2007 23:18:19 GMT
I think that they used just one loco according to my research, and then two when they had to go up the ramp at Drayton Park, reverse (at Finsbury Park?) run down to Kings X York Road, then via Widened Lines and reverse at Faringdon > Inner Rail and vice versa, when the high level line at Finsbury Park was disconnected.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 25, 2007 23:30:25 GMT
Is this a daft suggestion, but could it be a colour picture, but black and whited? If a new line was opened, then a train from the past would look great breaking the tape. My other thought was something on The Vic..... How much of the 67 stock was ready on opening day? All that was needed - standard stock never ran on the Victoria line. However, the experiemental tunnels driven north of Finsbury Park in 1962-3 (which later became part of the line) did use standard stock for tests.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 26, 2007 0:12:12 GMT
Just a thought, could the decorations not be marking the opening or starting of something, but the ending of it. The last train perhaps? As in the last train from Finsbury Park on the Northern City in 1964, 3rd October 1964? Although that puts paid to my theory of the Motorman in 'summer order' as it were.........
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 26, 2007 0:18:01 GMT
If there was a battery locomotive on the other end it would require an independent tail light at the rear as the train would have no electric supply from the rail. Therefore what you are seeing is the rear of the train and what is a Guard, not a Motorman. Not wishing to widdle on your strawberries, but isn't the red tail light lit on the LH side of the unit? I can't remember if the standard stock tail light would remain lit when 'off juice'?
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 26, 2007 0:34:31 GMT
I believe this is 1931 stock because the 34ts had grilles rather than plates. Most DM on the IoW were from the 1931-34 ex piccadilly batch although the trailers tended to be older (1923-7). The trailer behind this DM looks like a 1931-4 trailer with air end doors. I don't think it is an ex CT however. The oil light is a weird design tho! I think this is the last run of this stock at Drayton Pk. On the IoW these trains had a whistle added where the windscreen wipper cover is. What is that tube thing next to it? A lot of old stocks had that (std, 38, F, Q, O/P) its been bugging me for ages!
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Post by tubeprune on Dec 26, 2007 7:27:26 GMT
This is a 1931/4 Standard Stock with what looks like a 1931 trailer on the Northern City Line at Drayton Park. If so, it is about 1964, since the train has one of those experimental flashing tail lights which were tried out on the line from August 1964.
If the train is at Drayton Park, I wonder why all the doors are closed. Perhaps it is being prepared for service. They used to stable one in the platform overnight.
IoW trains were all modified and repainted before they went to the island. Most of them were repainted at Stewarts Lane.
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Post by tubeprune on Dec 26, 2007 7:41:13 GMT
I believe this is 1931 stock because the 34ts had grilles rather than plates. Most DM on the IoW were from the 1931-34 ex piccadilly batch although the trailers tended to be older (1923-7). The trailer behind this DM looks like a 1931-4 trailer with air end doors. I don't think it is an ex CT however. The oil light is a weird design tho! I think this is the last run of this stock at Drayton Pk. On the IoW these trains had a whistle added where the windscreen wipper cover is. What is that tube thing next to it? A lot of old stocks had that (std, 38, F, Q, O/P) its been bugging me for ages! The 1931 and 34 Standard Stock DMs had grilles on one side and top-hinged cover plates on the other. There is no difference between the two externally as far as I can recall. I can't even remember the cabs had any differences either. The tail light is as mrfs42 says. The marker lights had sliding covers. The cover is for the whistle. It used to be under the cab floor but it got so dirty and clogged up it wouldn't always work so they moved it next to the w/wiper. The BR version was added when they went to the IoW because BR didn't like our whistle tone.
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Post by tubeprune on Dec 26, 2007 7:45:56 GMT
Can I dive in and make a suggestion (which can easily be discounted) that the train is on the old Northern Heights extension on a stock move between East Finchley and Drayton Park. If there was a battery locomotive on the other end it would require an independent tail light at the rear as the train would have no electric supply from the rail. Therefore what you are seeing is the rear of the train and what is a Guard, not a Motorman. What I cannot clearly see to help with my idea is if there is a fourth rail. All LU trains had electric tail lights AND oil or battery tail lamps until er er someone help me here - 1970s?
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Post by william on Dec 26, 2007 8:43:09 GMT
All LU trains had electric tail lights AND oil or battery tail lamps until er er someone help me here - 1970s? In the early 1980s oil tail lamps survived only on the R stock and vanished with the last R stock train withdrawn in March 1983.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Dec 26, 2007 12:11:08 GMT
I am debating whether lamps were used on Standard Stock and Sub-surface Stock used on pilot/ballast duties?
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 26, 2007 12:19:06 GMT
The CO/CP stock had them too until 1981. The R stock did have two electric tail lights at solebar level like the 38ts but clearly these weren't reliable so they had a oil lamp! Interestingly when the A stock was first delivered they used oil lamps too as they had problems with their static converters in the early days.
The train in question maybe being coupled to an off peak Motor-Control trailer combo that ran on the GN&City in the slack hours hence why the doors are shut. But why the decor?
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Post by william on Dec 26, 2007 15:05:14 GMT
I am debating whether lamps were used on Standard Stock and Sub-surface Stock used on pilot/ballast duties? Yes, oil lamps were used on Standard Stock and Sub-surface Stock used on pilot/ballast duties
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