Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 12, 2021 8:44:32 GMT
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Post by grumpycat on Oct 12, 2021 10:27:29 GMT
From what I have heard from someone I know in control the driver is fine apart from a few scrapes. |
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Post by plasmid on Oct 12, 2021 23:30:24 GMT
Those buffers look quite old, perhaps not up to the task even.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 13, 2021 1:44:10 GMT
Yes and no - they prevented the train hitting the station building, which would likely have resulted in more injuries (although being an early-morning contra-peak train helped with that considerably too), but they didn't restrain the train completely.
Modern friction buffers are designed to slide along the track for some distance gradually slowing the train rather than bringing it to an abrupt stop. However, installing these at Enfield Town would mean moving the stopping point quite a way towards London and I don't know whether that can be done without platform extensions, and in turn I don't know how close the current platforms are to pointwork. Google Maps air photo conveniently includes an 8-car train in platform 2. Very approximately there is about 3.5 metres between the north of the train (which I will assume is at the stopping mark) and the buffers and about 4.5 metres between the buffers and the wall of the station building. There is about 14 metres between the south end of the train and the platform end barriers. While you could hang over that slightly with the cab, I think any significant distance is going to make signal sighting difficult.
That gives a total of about 21 metres maximum between the end of the train and the station building. For reference, the buffers for the LO platforms at Stratford are approximately 14 (p1) and 19 (p2) metres from the first solid object, but the apparent stopping marks are 84m and 11m respectively from those buffers.
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Post by andypurk on Oct 13, 2021 2:46:15 GMT
Yes and no - they prevented the train hitting the station building, which would likely have resulted in more injuries (although being an early-morning contra-peak train helped with that considerably too), but they didn't restrain the train completely. Modern friction buffers are designed to slide along the track for some distance gradually slowing the train rather than bringing it to an abrupt stop. However, installing these at Enfield Town would mean moving the stopping point quite a way towards London and I don't know whether that can be done without platform extensions, and in turn I don't know how close the current platforms are to pointwork. Google Maps air photo conveniently includes an 8-car train in platform 2. Very approximately there is about 3.5 metres between the north of the train (which I will assume is at the stopping mark) and the buffers and about 4.5 metres between the buffers and the wall of the station building. There is about 14 metres between the south end of the train and the platform end barriers. While you could hang over that slightly with the cab, I think any significant distance is going to make signal sighting difficult. That gives a total of about 21 metres maximum between the end of the train and the station building. For reference, the buffers for the LO platforms at Stratford are approximately 14 (p1) and 19 (p2) metres from the first solid object, but the apparent stopping marks are 84m and 11m respectively from those buffers. One consideration to add is that the class 710 unit don't have the buffers to interact with the buffer stops! If you compare the stops at Enfield with those designed for more modern stock, for example at Euston, you'll see there is pocket designed for the coupler. The coupler is designed to absorb quite a lot of the energy in a low speed collision, but won't work so well if not captured. There is probably room for the type of friction buffers, with coupler pockets as seen at Euston, to be fitted at Enfield Town. These only take a few metres of space. From the Sectional Appendix the platforms are all >180m (equivalent to 9 x 20m coaches) and the class 710 4-car units are just under 83m long. It is possible that the signal positions may need to be adjusted, but as the class 710s are not gangwayed, there may not be so much of an issue for signal sighting compared with the class 317 units which ran some of the services in the past. |
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Oct 13, 2021 8:26:31 GMT
The 0924 will be the first train from Enfield Town and will depart from Platform 2. I popped in as it’s my local station but couldn’t wait for this train (it will leave about 10m late) as I had to go to work.
Might get to see it later today
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Post by 100andthirty on Oct 13, 2021 9:07:46 GMT
Yes and no - they prevented the train hitting the station building, which would likely have resulted in more injuries (although being an early-morning contra-peak train helped with that considerably too), but they didn't restrain the train completely. Modern friction buffers are designed to slide along the track for some distance gradually slowing the train rather than bringing it to an abrupt stop. However, installing these at Enfield Town would mean moving the stopping point quite a way towards London and I don't know whether that can be done without platform extensions, and in turn I don't know how close the current platforms are to pointwork. Google Maps air photo conveniently includes an 8-car train in platform 2. Very approximately there is about 3.5 metres between the north of the train (which I will assume is at the stopping mark) and the buffers and about 4.5 metres between the buffers and the wall of the station building. There is about 14 metres between the south end of the train and the platform end barriers. While you could hang over that slightly with the cab, I think any significant distance is going to make signal sighting difficult. That gives a total of about 21 metres maximum between the end of the train and the station building. For reference, the buffers for the LO platforms at Stratford are approximately 14 (p1) and 19 (p2) metres from the first solid object, but the apparent stopping marks are 84m and 11m respectively from those buffers. One consideration to add is that the class 710 unit don't have the buffers to interact with the buffer stops! If you compare the stops at Enfield with those designed for more modern stock, for example at Euston, you'll see there is pocket designed for the coupler. The coupler is designed to absorb quite a lot of the energy in a low speed collision, but won't work so well if not captured. There is probably room for the type of friction buffers, with coupler pockets as seen at Euston, to be fitted at Enfield Town. These only take a few metres of space. From the Sectional Appendix the platforms are all >180m (equivalent to 9 x 20m coaches) and the class 710 4-car units are just under 83m long. It is possible that the signal positions may need to be adjusted, but as the class 710s are not gangwayed, there may not be so much of an issue for signal sighting compared with the class 317 units which ran some of the services in the past. My take on the incident is this: Firstly the class 710 does have buffers - or anti-climbers - hidden behind the blue fibreglass either side of the coupler. What seems to have happened here is that the force of the collision has caused the fishplates in the last rail joint to come adrift allowing the buffer to move backwards until the buffer (or rails on which it was mounted) to hit something solid at which point it pivoted upwards with the result we've seen in the photos. The buffer structure itself seems remarkably undamaged. Even friction buffers rely on the strength and integrity of the track on which they're mounted, and the attention to detail in terms of the amount of grip they apply to the rails, something that is very difficult to test. |
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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Post by slugabed on Oct 13, 2021 11:22:03 GMT
While glad that no-one was seriously hurt,I worry that this will lead to the removal of the engine-escape crossover,which has miraculously survived at this location.
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Post by andypurk on Oct 13, 2021 11:32:10 GMT
One consideration to add is that the class 710 unit don't have the buffers to interact with the buffer stops! If you compare the stops at Enfield with those designed for more modern stock, for example at Euston, you'll see there is pocket designed for the coupler. The coupler is designed to absorb quite a lot of the energy in a low speed collision, but won't work so well if not captured. There is probably room for the type of friction buffers, with coupler pockets as seen at Euston, to be fitted at Enfield Town. These only take a few metres of space. From the Sectional Appendix the platforms are all >180m (equivalent to 9 x 20m coaches) and the class 710 4-car units are just under 83m long. It is possible that the signal positions may need to be adjusted, but as the class 710s are not gangwayed, there may not be so much of an issue for signal sighting compared with the class 317 units which ran some of the services in the past. My take on the incident is this: Firstly the class 710 does have buffers - or anti-climbers - hidden behind the blue fibreglass either side of the coupler. What seems to have happened here is that the force of the collision has caused the fishplates in the last rail joint to come adrift allowing the buffer to move backwards until the buffer (or rails on which it was mounted) to hit something solid at which point it pivoted upwards with the result we've seen in the photos. The buffer structure itself seems remarkably undamaged. Even friction buffers rely on the strength and integrity of the track on which they're mounted, and the attention to detail in terms of the amount of grip they apply to the rails, something that is very difficult to test. Yes, I know about the anti-climbers, but these are behind the coupler which will be the first thing to contact that style of buffer stops and which is designed to absorb some of the energy in a collision. It is quite surprising that this style of buffer stops at Enfield Town have lasted so long, considering that neither the class 315 or 317 have buffers or anti-climbers. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 25, 2021 9:21:07 GMT
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Post by MoreToJack on Oct 27, 2021 23:40:59 GMT
With the announcement of an RAIB investigation, this thread is now locked until the release of the report. If any further information comes up, and you wish to add to the thread, please PM any member of the forum staff.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jul 6, 2023 9:09:00 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 7, 2023 16:29:06 GMT
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