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Post by jetblast787 on Jun 26, 2021 13:27:31 GMT
Hello all!
I'm trying to figure out some text I read eons ago where it was stated that the minimum mandated rail service frequency in London for TfL services was 4tph (i.e. 15 min intervals), but I'm not sure where I read this snippet of information 
My question therefore: is there a minimum mandated service frequency that TfL services and/or non-tfl rail stations in London should have? Whilst I do understand some stations don't recieve the 4tph (i.e. Northolt Park, WOD-HAI etc) I'm sure I read somewhere that there are minimum mandated service frequencies?
Thanks
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Post by alpinejohn on Jun 26, 2021 14:06:03 GMT
I rather doubt there is any TFL "mandated" service frequency, on any route. Yes there is a desire to deliver frequent services on most lines at peak demand periods, but I am not aware of that being stipulated by law. For instance the Waterloo and City line was completely "suspended" for many months. The choice of a suspension probably avoids getting embroiled in Act of Parliament closure procedures or indeed the need to operate some sort of "Parliamentary Service".
I think you will find that lines like Romford-Upminster only aim to offer a half hourly service for much of the day and indeed the absence of any specified frequency probably means that TFL services are not really exposed to Delay Repay claims.
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Post by quex on Jun 26, 2021 15:56:45 GMT
TfL's National Rail services (i.e. TfL Rail/Crossrail, and London Overground) may indeed have clauses specifying a minimum service provision in their concession contract.
However this will be on an individual basis for each route, rather than a blanket minimum, and will be more related to service "quality" (delays, performance etc.) rather than a base timetable. Further, as it's the concession model, it would be TfL themselves providing the specification. |
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,419
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Post by DWS on Jun 27, 2021 20:14:26 GMT
I rather doubt there is any TFL "mandated" service frequency, on any route. Yes there is a desire to deliver frequent services on most lines at peak demand periods, but I am not aware of that being stipulated by law. For instance the Waterloo and City line was completely "suspended" for many months. The choice of a suspension probably avoids getting embroiled in Act of Parliament closure procedures or indeed the need to operate some sort of "Parliamentary Service". I think you will find that lines like Romford-Upminster only aim to offer a half hourly service for much of the day and indeed the absence of any specified frequency probably means that TFL services are not really exposed to Delay Repay claims. The Romford-Upminster line can only can only run a half hourly service due to having no passing loop, TfL when it took over the running of the train extended the hours of service also a Sunday service was provided. |
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Post by brigham on Jun 28, 2021 8:13:44 GMT
I think that some stations where I live have fewer than 4tph.
I'll have to check.
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 28, 2021 22:03:16 GMT
I think 4tph is seen as the minimum needed to offer an easily understood 'turn up and go' service that does not benefit from checking train times on a timetable.
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Post by Chris L on Jun 30, 2021 20:00:23 GMT
I think 4tph is seen as the minimum needed to offer an easily understood 'turn up and go' service that does not benefit from checking train times on a timetable. When I was responsible for managing the production of train departures posters at Tube stations in the 1980s research suggested that the break point was 10 minutes. Below this the service was considered frequent and individual times did not need to be shown. (When I started work at London Transport in July 1972 I travelled into Charing Cross station from Maze Hill on the old Southern Region. It was half hourly and the trains were jam packed. That part of the line now gets around 6 trains per hour.) |
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Post by phil on Jul 2, 2021 12:24:49 GMT
Hello all!
I'm trying to figure out some text I read eons ago where it was stated that the minimum mandated rail service frequency in London for TfL services was 4tph (i.e. 15 min intervals), but I'm not sure where I read this snippet of information
My question therefore: is there a minimum mandated service frequency that TfL services and/or non-tfl rail stations in London should have? Whilst I do understand some stations don't recieve the 4tph (i.e. Northolt Park, WOD-HAI etc) I'm sure I read somewhere that there are minimum mandated service frequencies?
Thanks
TfL can 'mandate' all they like - they don't own the national rail infrastructure and whats more the laws / regulations put in place since the privatisation of British Rail safeguard the rights of freight operators to use the tracks off peak so they cannot be squeezed out by passenger operations.
Minimum service levels for National Rail services (including those subsequently taken on by TfL), typically no grater than 2tph, are laid down in law and changes to them involve an onerous / costly formal legal process.
What is actually the case is that TfL have an 'aspiration' for a minimum of 4 tph based on the fact that research shows this is the minimum interval for which a service can be regarded as 'turn up and go' (i.e. you don't need to consult a timetable).
That aspiration is entirely dependent on (i) The infrastructure being available (e.g. passing loops) and (ii) It not preventing the rights of other train operators to use the same infrastructure when desired in off peak times. If the infrastructure / spare train paths don't exist then TfL has to put up with a less than 4 tph service or bankroll extra infrastructure to create space.
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