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Post by yerkes on Jun 5, 2021 19:38:53 GMT
I'm trying to find out more information about Chief Mechanical Engineers. I know a little about W Agnew and WS Graff Baker, but I have lots of gaps in my knowledge, chronologically and in terms of my understanding of what they contributed to Underground development. And I don't know about any CMEs other than these two.
I wonder if anyone would be able to point me to any useful and relevant resources, books, etc.?
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Post by quex on Jun 7, 2021 9:37:48 GMT
Some of the published books on LU rolling stock have bits (albeit rarely more than snippets) about the CMEs. I think Paul Moss' "Underground Movement" has the most. J (James?) Graeme-Bruce was Chief Engineer for much of the second half of the 20th century, and wrote a couple of books on rolling stock - I have a vague recollection that at least one of the editions of one of these had a sort of autobiographical "About the Author" section to it.
Perhaps worth mentioning, as a bit of trivia more than anything, that Graff-Baker bears considerable responsibility for the design of the much-celebrated '38 stock.
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Post by yerkes on Jun 7, 2021 14:14:05 GMT
Thank you, Quex. I'm in the middle of Piers Connor's book on the '38 stock just now and there's some very interesting correspondence included between Graff-Baker and Agnew and the LPTB Board. Of course Graff-Baker was also responsible for the design of the '35 stock and Q38/O/P/R stock. I love the way he thought the '35 stock should have a streamlined front only because that was the fashion of the time - no other reason!
There are small vignettes of each of these characters in books like that noted above (I haven't read Paul Moss' book, so thanks for that), and also JP Thomas' 'Handling London's Underground Traffic' - I'm fortunate to have my grandfather's edition of that, dating from 1928. And of course Agnew and Bruce wrote books of their own.
I'll keep searching!
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Post by 100andthirty on Jun 7, 2021 14:54:37 GMT
For info. J Graeme Bruce was a very senior rolling stock engineer, but was never the CME. A W Manser followed Graff Baker from 1952 and G Bingham followed Manser in circa 1969. That take us to the early 1970s. S F Smith was next, I believe, and was certainly in post in 1979. Next came C W Hardie and G H Hafter - but I forget in which order. After that the post of CME was abolished and the nearest equivalent post - Principal Mechanical Engineer, Head of Rolling Stock Engineering of the Rolling Stock Engineer - was occupied in turn by A W Waterman, PD Longhurst, J W Vint, M H Dobell, G Neil and as of next month, I Rawlings. The current job title is "Head of Vehicles" and covers all TfL's vehicles including bikes and the Woolwich ferry!
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Post by Chris L on Jun 7, 2021 15:35:10 GMT
For info. J Graeme Bruce was a very senior rolling stock engineer, but was never the CME. A W Manser followed Graff Baker from 1952 and G Bingham followed Manser in circa 1969. That take us to the early 1970s. S F Smith was next, I believe, and was certainly in post in 1979. Next came C W Hardie and G H Hafter - but I forget in which order. After that the post of CME was abolished and the nearest equivalent post - Principal Mechanical Engineer, Head old Rolling Stock Engineering of the Rolling Stock Engineer - was occupied in turn by A W Waterman, PD Longhurst, J W Vint, M H Dobell, G Neil and as of next month, I Rawlings. The current job title is "Head of Vehicles" and covers all TfL's vehicles including bikes and the Woolwich ferry! Clive Hardie and Malcolm Dobell. Gordon Hafter was the engineer in charge of the recovery after the Moorgate train crash. |
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Post by yerkes on Jun 7, 2021 22:05:37 GMT
100andthirty and Chris, thank you both very much - that's really helpful. I've found some further writings on the topic in my trawls of the internet today.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jun 11, 2021 13:32:25 GMT
For info. J Graeme Bruce was a very senior rolling stock engineer, but was never the CME. A W Manser followed Graff Baker from 1952 and G Bingham followed Manser in circa 1969. That take us to the early 1970s. S F Smith was next, I believe, and was certainly in post in 1979. Next came C W Hardie and G H Hafter - but I forget in which order. After that the post of CME was abolished and the nearest equivalent post - Principal Mechanical Engineer, Head old Rolling Stock Engineering of the Rolling Stock Engineer - was occupied in turn by A W Waterman, PD Longhurst, J W Vint, M H Dobell, G Neil and as of next month, I Rawlings. The current job title is "Head of Vehicles" and covers all TfL's vehicles including bikes and the Woolwich ferry! J Graeme Bruce did become CME,he took over when Manser retired around 67-68. |
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Post by 100andthirty on Jun 12, 2021 19:55:39 GMT
"G Bingham was CME in 1969 when I started having replaced A W Manser shortly before. Graeme Bruce was the engineer responsible for all the depots before becoming Chief Operations Manager." That's what my memory tells me. However, in the 1970 Preface to "Steam to Silver" Graeme Bruce refers to G Bingham as "CME Design and Development" so it's possible that Graeme Bruce's title was something like "CME depots".
Perhaps a real expert will be along who has access to the TfL archives.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 13, 2021 14:36:46 GMT
My archives of Traffic Circular Supplements confirm that J. Graeme Bruce became Chief Operating Manager (Railways) in the summer of 1973, after W.W. Maxwell. He remained in post until autumn 1978, being suceeded by C.H.J Cope, with the title being changed to Operations Director (Railways).
My 1983 copy of Steam to Silver makes gives a clue:
also though I note this doesn't confirm or deny what position Mr Bruce held.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 13, 2021 16:35:47 GMT
in part obituary to Mr Bruce who died 1 July 2001, Gordon Hafter writes in Underground News:
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 13, 2021 21:08:12 GMT
"G Bingham was CME in 1969 when I started having replaced A W Manser shortly before. Graeme Bruce was the engineer responsible for all the depots before becoming Chief Operations Manager." That's what my memory tells me. However, in the 1970 Preface to "Steam to Silver" Graeme Bruce refers to G Bingham as "CME Design and Development" so it's possible that Graeme Bruce's title was something like "CME depots" The LURS Historical Archive records in Underground No. 139 that Graeme Bruce's title was Rolling Stock Engineer (Railways) prior to his appointment as Chief Operating Manager, and details the responsibilities of the role as you've explained them - your memory of the arrangement is indeed correct! I think we can thus conclude that he wasn't CME (Railways) - it seems like the Bingham era may have been a rather awkward time with the amalgamation of the bus and rail mechanical engineering organisation (a similar move as undertaken with TfL's Engineering Transformation in 2018 and the Head of Vehicles role - proof that nothing is truly original!) until later on when Gordon Hafter was in the retitled role of Director of Mechanical Engineering (Railways). |
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Post by jimbo on Jun 14, 2021 3:54:25 GMT
"G Bingham was CME in 1969 when I started having replaced A W Manser shortly before. Graeme Bruce was the engineer responsible for all the depots before becoming Chief Operations Manager." That's what my memory tells me. However, in the 1970 Preface to "Steam to Silver" Graeme Bruce refers to G Bingham as "CME Design and Development" so it's possible that Graeme Bruce's title was something like "CME depots" The LURS Historical Archive records in Underground No. 139 that Graeme Bruce's title was Rolling Stock Engineer (Railways) prior to his appointment as Chief Operating Manager, and details the responsibilities of the role as you've explained them - your memory of the arrangement is indeed correct! ..... I believe it was a new idea to have an engineer in charge of operations. I presume that Bruce retained his responsibility for depots, and this was the time that routine maintenance came under operations, including call point examiners along each line. |
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Post by 100andthirty on Jun 14, 2021 6:10:29 GMT
I believe that Gordon Hafter succeeded Graeme Bruce as Rolling Stock Engineer(Railways) reporting to the Chief Operating Manager.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jun 18, 2021 11:47:59 GMT
When Bruce was deputy CME us trainee car examiners had to meet him in his office at Acton Works.He always stuck me as a nice chap.
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