Alluring DVA and pre-recorded station announcements

I'm curious as to what DPA stands for.
I've raised the point about 'red signal' being a little archaic on some LUL ATC lines. The relevant TfL authority chose not to update it yet.
There's a current ruling about telling passengers something relevant as soon as a train is held between stations for more than 30 seconds. Used to be 2 minutes. Probably why this admittedly not very helpful message is used so much.

S stock has another one about waiting for a vacant platform at the station ahead, which is a little more informative.

The point about "audio clutter" well taken. Perhaps, "We'll be moving ahead as soon as traffic permits" would be a better initial announcement.

You're reading far too deeply into it!

The whole point of the initial PA's is reassurance. As I mentioned above, the current PA standard was brought in after 7/7 following customer feedback.

By making the initial PA we are reassuring customers that there is nothing untoward going on. We are in control and everything is routine and normal. The three minute update is the PA where we should be giving relevant information.

There is nothing more frustrating than sitting on a train with a silent driver.

No, LU have thought about it, the result of that thinking was they asked passengers what they want. The majority want the driver to speak to them within about 30 seconds if they stop between stations. Yes stopping is normal, but passengers want to be explicitly told it's normal. You might not be concerned, but some people are, and it's much better that they are reassured than they start panicking. Not everybody does know that trains routinely stop and start between stations.
The first announcement is 100% intended as reassurance. It's not false (other than, possibly, the signal being "red" on ATO lines, but that's exceedingly trivial) - you are being held and you should (not will) be on the move shortly. None of that changes when a second announcement gives a reason why you're being held, you were not lied to.

London Underground does have an issue with unnecessary announcements but the 30-second announcements are very much not one of them.

I think that when the passengers said that they assumed that the people requiring their answers were intelligent enough to realise that they wanted meaningful information from the driver.

In fact the 'information' they get is useless. Whether the train has stopped because the platform it needs at the next station isn't available, or a terrorist attack has blown up half the underground, they will hear exactly the same 'reassuring' message.




Even when the person (or system) telling them that has absolutely no idea at all whether the stop is routine or something that could result in a very significant delay - i.e. whether it is normal or not?



That's really clutching at straws. I've spent hundreds of hours on the Underground before these announcements were common and witnessed hundreds of inter station stops and not once seen or heard any evidence of panic (unless the lights go out in which case I've occasionally heard the odd gasp).


This is getting ridiculous. The number of people who don't know that trains stop and start between stations must be infinitesimal. And if they are that nervous and that ignorant they are just as likely to be spooked by the term 'red signal' as they are by the train stopping. (Not to mention all the noise, jolts, and lurches they experienced on their journey before the train stopped).

The information may be correct, but it's utterly useless.

It's the LU version of:

"Something must be done"
"This is something, let's do it"

In this case, "tell them something that is true but completely unhelpful.


I disagree, and I can assure you I'm not alone. Every single person that I've asked (that actually takes note of announcements) thinks they are stupid, and an unwelcome intrusion.

What I think we would all like is a brief explanation of the problem and an estimate (if available) of the delay. Not a message which effectively tells us that the train has stopped and will start again at some unspecified time in the future.


ETA: I should point out, I've realised, that it is not announcements made by drivers where they speak the message themselves that I and others have found annoying. It's the automated announcement on S-Stock sets that are the main problem. I don't know if they are fully automatic or if the driver has to press a button to initiate them (if the later, they may hit the button as soon as the train stops so as not to forget), but they seem to occur more quickly than 30 seconds after the train stops (no way of checking at the moment). When you're doing a 'Circle Line Limp' from Paddington to King's Cross where the train crawls from signal to signal, the identical message, which is clearly not being spoken by the driver, every time the train stops is infuriating.

I can actually see that hearing the driver speaking could be reassuring, as you know that he's alive, conscious, and monitoring the situation. 

They know the driver is still awake, paying attention and in control of the train. This is reassuring and not useless.


Yes, that's why it's not the only message. Every stop is routine until it isn't.


Have you considered that the people who were so concerned might not have been travelling before the announcements? Or that you might not be aware of everybody on every train? Or perhaps that not every sign of worry is obvious to strangers, especially if people are trying not to show it?


This makes me really glad that you are not in charge of responding to passenger feedback. The messages are what people have said they wanted, they are neither useless nor unhelpful to those that want them, even if they are to you personally.


How many people have you asked? Are they a representative sample of the public, including those who don't regularly travel by train? I can't prove it but I would be amazed if it was fewer than London Underground, who have been regularly asking many people exactly this sort of thing for many years, and receiving feedback about it for many years. They have employed professional organisations to get a sample that is as representative as possible.


That's the point of the second message.

If you are just going to respond with more straw men and dismissal of points of view that don't agree with your own then please do not be surprised if people stop listening and responding to you.

Since this topic seems to be concentrating on SSR and tube lines, do the other local lines (Crossrail, DLR, Overground, NatRail, etc) also make announcements when they stop short of a station? Granted that it's much less likely on NatRail services but could happen on any line that's either running a busy service or has multiple tracks merging into a single station (e.g. DLR from Lewisham and Woolwich/Becton heading to Westferry or the Overground from Enfield/Chingford to Hackney Downs).

(Side question- is there a map/list that gives the accepted line names/references? I suppose the outer terminal name would do the job most of the time.)

My favourite is when on the northbound Northern Line we are told that the next station is Euston (Charing Cross branch).   Valid on the southbound but irrelevant on the northbound.

In relation to stops between stations, the pre-recorded announcements are driver initiated.

This is true although there is an advantage to a human voice, it gets peoples attention while they often don't hear a recorded one.

If I ever have to pass a signal at danger, (because of signalling issues) which will result in the train coming to a sharp stop, I always make an announcement asking people to listen to the recorded announcement which is to follow,

I regard Underground practice in this area as something that the main line network should aspire to.

My personal experience on SE is that after about a minute the driver will say something along the lines of "I've just spoken to the signaller and we should be on the move soon due to a slow train etc etc etc"

On the DLR, I think the PSA says that there's a problem somewhere beforehand. Those bings are actually rather reassuring, in a way.