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Post by 1018509 on Feb 21, 2021 22:42:11 GMT
Behind the advertisement hoardings of Baker Street platform 1 is a short section of track coming from the Circle Line direction and ending in a buffer stop behind the hoardings. This does not appear on the Carto-Metro map and I wonder what this piece of line was for - is it perhaps part of the original Metropolitan Railway from the mid/later 1800's?
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Post by 1018509 on Feb 21, 2021 22:47:48 GMT
I discovered this after mooching around one Sunday afternoon after checking for shoes missing on an A60 (I was a Rayners Lane Call Point Technician). There was also a small toilet block which looked a lot like the loo in "Train Spotting" and looked like it hadn't been used for years.
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Post by philthetube on Feb 21, 2021 22:51:02 GMT
It would hit the circle at much to steeper angle to be part of it.
There is always a bit of an overrun beyond stopping marks, stops, (buffers) are normally attached to rails and you would not want a train accidentally kissing them to be derailed.
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Post by 1018509 on Feb 21, 2021 22:55:54 GMT
I don't understand your reply. The piece of track comes from the Circle line end it's not connected to the Circle line - nor is it connected to the line in platform 1 although it could have been once upon a time - I just wondered what the purpose of it was when built.
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Post by quex on Feb 21, 2021 23:18:56 GMT
I can't be entirely certain form your description, but it sounds like what you're talking about is the old Chiltern Court coal siding.
The coal to the block of flats above Baker Street was until the '50s supplied directly by rail to a siding beneath the complex, directly opposite and branching off from the track in Baker St P1. I believe every week a wagon would arrive on this siding, the coal would be unloaded, and then the waste ash from the Chiltern Court boilers would be loaded into the wagon to be taken into the country somewhere (Croxley tip rings a bell?) to be disposed of.
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Post by Chris L on Feb 22, 2021 4:09:59 GMT
I can't be entirely certain form your description, but it sounds like what you're talking about is the old Chiltern Court coal siding. The coal to the block of flats above Baker Street was until the '50s supplied directly by rail to a siding beneath the complex, directly opposite and branching off from the track in Baker St P1. I believe every week a wagon would arrive on this siding, the coal would be unloaded, and then the waste ash from the Chiltern Court boilers would be loaded into the wagon to be taken into the country somewhere (Croxley tip rings a bell?) to be disposed of. This shows the former access to the coal siding. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Baker_Street_stn_Metropolitan_bay_platform_1_look_south.JPG
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Post by revupminster on Feb 22, 2021 7:12:27 GMT
For the ancients on here. Hughie Green, of Opportunity Knocks and Double Your Money used to live there and had a model railway in one of the rooms.
The novelists Arnold Bennett and H. G. Wells also lived there.
It also reminded me of the ex BR stations Upney to Upminster Bridge had coal boilers for the radiators later changed to gas. The coal shute cover at Elm Park being in the street just outside the entrance which allowed coal to be dropped into the room below the booking hall.
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Post by brigham on Feb 22, 2021 8:41:27 GMT
Is the electric supply still 'funny' in Chiltern Court?
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Post by t697 on Feb 22, 2021 9:59:18 GMT
It always seemed amazing to me that this coal delivery/ash removal could be cost effective and not so disruptive as to be impractical. I imagine the train of loco, wagons, brake van having to arrive in platform 2 or 3, secure, uncouple the loco, run the loco round via crossovers on the Circle and the north end of the station, draw the train north, propel into the siding, blocking platform 1. Then when unloading/loading was complete, draw the brake van north and shunt it to platform 2 or maybe the buffer end of platform 1 if the number of wagons allowed the points to be cleared, then return and draw the wagons north, shunt back on to the brake van before coupling up and the whole train eventually departing north. Was this what was done? And what time of the day was all this done!?
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Post by t697 on Feb 22, 2021 10:00:21 GMT
Is the electric supply still 'funny' in Chiltern Court? No idea, but fascinated to hear what was 'funny' about it.
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Post by Chris L on Feb 22, 2021 10:15:06 GMT
Is the electric supply still 'funny' in Chiltern Court? Doubtful as the building is now in private hands. They have recently split the power supply at 55 Broadway from St James's Park station pending the hotel conversion. I suspect this would have been the same with the sale of Chiltern Court. When I worked at 55 Broadway the power came from the LT supply. It was not as stable as the national grid and would fluctuate as trains went through the station. The clocks on early computers would not keep time.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 22, 2021 10:58:16 GMT
The clocks on early computers would not keep time. It's unlikely that was to do with the power fluctuations. For some reason the internal clocks that manufacturers fit to motherboards are appallingly poor timekeepers. (Bizarre, considering that you can get a very accurate digital watch for a few pounds. A lot of microwave manufacturers seem to do the same.) You don't notice it now because the machines keep synching with the Internet time. If a power fluctuation was bad enough, a computer would crash (at which point the internal battery would keep the clock running) rather than lose or gain time.
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Post by Chris L on Feb 22, 2021 11:25:51 GMT
The clocks on early computers would not keep time. It's unlikely that was to do with the power fluctuations. For some reason the internal clocks that manufacturers fit to motherboards are appallingly poor timekeepers. (Bizarre, considering that you can get a very accurate digital watch for a few pounds. A lot of microwave manufacturers seem to do the same.) You don't notice it now because the machines keep synching with the Internet time. If a power fluctuation was bad enough, a computer would crash (at which point the internal battery would keep the clock running) rather than lose or gain time. This was a long time ago and the supplier confirmed the problem with the manufacturer.
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Post by 1018509 on Feb 22, 2021 20:08:13 GMT
From what I remember this sounds exactly right. I imagine a pannier tank arriving at platform 1 then into the coal siding - droppingthe wagon at the buffers I mentioned then out and away until wagon pick up time.
Thanks for the info.
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Post by jimbo on Feb 22, 2021 20:21:53 GMT
Baker Street 1933 track layout here in great detail if you enlarge it enough!
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Feb 23, 2021 1:41:58 GMT
From what I remember this sounds exactly right. I imagine a pannier tank arriving at platform 1 then into the coal siding - droppingthe wagon at the buffers I mentioned then out and away until wagon pick up time. Thanks for the info. The loco for the coal train was electric.
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Post by brigham on Feb 23, 2021 8:36:40 GMT
Is the electric supply still 'funny' in Chiltern Court? No idea, but fascinated to hear what was 'funny' about it. The comment is from Hughie Green's daughter, (Linda, not the famous one!), who described the electric supply thus. Seemingly, the use of some electrical devices was less than satisfactory as a result of differing supply parameters. I'm inclined to think that the voltage would have been in the region of 230-250, but at 33⅓ cycles. Perhaps someone here could help?
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Post by Chris M on Feb 23, 2021 8:52:22 GMT
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Post by ted672 on Feb 23, 2021 9:18:46 GMT
Going back to the original question, I had a look at the National Library of Scotland's Georeferenced maps and found that the siding is shown here: maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=19&lat=51.52313&lon=-0.15652&layers=173&b=1 (if the link works) diverging part way along platform 1. It's amazing how a wide-ranging and interesting discussion can arise from a straightforward query!
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Post by Chris L on Feb 23, 2021 14:40:28 GMT
For the ancients on here. Hughie Green, of Opportunity Knocks and Double Your Money used to live there and had a model railway in one of the rooms. The novelists Arnold Bennett and H. G. Wells also lived there. It also reminded me of the ex BR stations Upney to Upminster Bridge had coal boilers for the radiators later changed to gas. The coal shute cover at Elm Park being in the street just outside the entrance which allowed coal to be dropped into the room below the booking hall. Hughie Green actually had 2 adjoining flats. One for him and one for the train set. Wendy Richard used to have a flat.
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Post by 1018509 on Feb 23, 2021 17:48:25 GMT
Baker Street 1933 track layout here in great detail if you enlarge it enough! Whatever happened to the siding with signal M14 as its outlet, near the signal box. I didn't realise that there was anything but a solid brickwall there?
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Feb 23, 2021 17:59:45 GMT
Baker Street 1933 track layout here in great detail if you enlarge it enough! Whatever happened to the siding with signal M14 as its outlet, near the signal box. I didn't realise that there was anything but a solid brickwall there? This was a loco siding for the electric loco for the Aylesbury trains, before the A stock trains. Removed as no longer required.
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Post by jimbo on Feb 23, 2021 18:24:22 GMT
Whatever happened to the siding with signal M14 as its outlet, near the signal box. I didn't realise that there was anything but a solid brickwall there? This was a loco siding for the electric loco for the Aylesbury trains, before the A stock trains. Removed as no longer required. So I presume that the loco that brought in the Aylesbury arrival was left in platform 4 when the train departed north, and then worked forward into this loco siding to await the following Aylesbury arrival. It then shunted onto the north end of that later train to take it back north, and so on, and so on, ..... Does that mean that there was a loco with two-man crew each sat for nearly an hour throughout most of each day? Seems most inefficient working! A similar thing happened in the peaks at Liverpool Street bay road, or just outside Aldgate, but Aylesbury trains would have been more frequent at peak time.
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Post by 1018509 on Feb 23, 2021 20:46:24 GMT
Where were the loco crew depots in those days?
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 23, 2021 23:03:27 GMT
Does that mean that there was a loco with two-man crew each sat for nearly an hour throughout most of each day? Seems most inefficient working! It only inefficient if the crew are twiddling their thumbs, if they were released for a break then it's only inefficient for locomotives not crew.
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Post by ducatisti on Feb 24, 2021 15:57:46 GMT
Were Met Electrics double-manned?
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Feb 24, 2021 16:02:26 GMT
Were Met Electrics double-manned? Yes a driver and an assistant.
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Post by ducatisti on Feb 24, 2021 16:04:28 GMT
Gosh!
I never knew that. Multiple units were single-manned weren't they? (excluding guard) Why were the engines so favoured?
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Feb 24, 2021 16:05:43 GMT
Gosh! I never knew that. Multiple units were single-manned weren't they? (excluding guard) Why were the engines so favoured? I think they did not have a deadman’s handle.
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Post by metman on Feb 26, 2021 20:31:58 GMT
Yes the Met-Viks I believe had a different type of controller so we’re double manned.
I wonder if the coal delivery operation was made more efficient with the use of a second loco from the loco loop? If the crew had a lot of time to kill this may have been a useful job?
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