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Post by brigham on Mar 9, 2011 14:43:16 GMT
A former resident leads me to believe that there was 'something odd' about the electric supply in Chiltern Court, and that it 'came off the railway'. Presumably it was originally from Neasden, but in what form? DC is the obvious answer, but it coud have been 33-cycle AC. Can anyone clarify?
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Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
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Post by Oracle on Mar 9, 2011 15:20:18 GMT
I am sure that I read that before 240v became standard there were other voltage/phased systems including 110v DC and AC. Could it therefore have been 110v AC?
Until 1965 I think it was, my great-aunts in South Ealing had GAS LIGHTING, and then had electricity installed by their landlord at 240v.
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Post by railtechnician on Mar 9, 2011 16:13:07 GMT
I am sure that I read that before 240v became standard there were other voltage/phased systems including 110v DC and AC. Could it therefore have been 110v AC? Until 1965 I think it was, my great-aunts in South Ealing had GAS LIGHTING, and then had electricity installed by their landlord at 240v. I would've thought 240v ac at 33 1/3 Hz which I believe was the LUL domestic supply on many stations and which might still be found in the odd location even today. I certainly came across a few old sites where emergency lighting was still so powered in the 1990s. The only part of the railway that I know to have been fed at 110v was the Picc extension to Cockfosters which was supplied power by the North Metropolitan Electricity company whose office building can still be seen in Station Road, Wood Green but long used as council offices. The signalling standard in that area was somewhat different too using 50v 33 1/3 Hz relays instead of the more standard 100v 33 1/3 Hz relays used elsewhere at the time. In the early days of domestic electricity there certainly were other systems in use and even though 240v 50 Hz is the modern standard there are still several systems in use. I believe one of the early systems still found in properties in the 1950s was a 220v dc three wire system i.e. 110-0-110 and I can certainly remember living in a house in Tottenham North London until 1959 in which we had 2A and 5A two round pin wiring for both power and lighting as well as 3 round pin 15A power in the lounge but it was all at 230-250v 50Hz. In those days adapters were plugged into room lighting sockets to power the 'wireless' or the electric iron because not all rooms were wired or at least not all wired with more than a single power outlet. As for gas lighting I know of one house in Edmonton that still had gas lighting in the 1980s. The terrace was built in the late 1920s and most residents had the gas lighting replaced with electricity after WW2 but the couple in this particular house a couple of doors away had bought it new when they got married and it remained much the same until they died. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 1:48:19 GMT
When I lived in Finchley as a child, up to the early 50s my grandparents' house had a 110 volt DC supply from the Finchley Borough Council's power house. This would not work their huge television set (with tiny screen), so there was a rotary converter in the kitchen that came on automatically when the TV was used, and supplied 240 volt AC.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Mar 10, 2011 4:10:50 GMT
Never seen a 2A 2 pin, but the three pin version was used in the labs at school for lights on microscopes and things. Mind you that was being disconnected in my first term there.
2A and 5A 3 pin still have a niche being used to connect wall-switched table lamps, such as in hotels. 15A 3 pin was untill about a decade ago used regularly for theatre and stage lighting.
Both the latter are still used abroad in ex-colonies and elsewhere, and the 5A 2pin became the shaver socket.
A friend of mine had his career in the generating industry. When he grew up his house in the country was fed with DC. He said interestingly that the plugs and sockets were polarised by the positive being a '+' shape and the negative a simple blade ('-'). Fascinating. I wonder if there was ever a tally out there of all the different systems and standards.
His last house in London was in itself a wonder. If I can ever find the pictures of his fuse cupboard... Some cables were still lead sheathed 2 core for lighting, then there were 15A power radials (15A sockets) to the upstairs rooms, downstairs 1362 ring, 20A radials to the kitchen, conservatory and garage, elec oven, storage heaters wired for the ecconomy 7 system, and power showers in most of the bedrooms. Goes without saying he made most of the alterations/installations himself. And a little 5 amp circuit just in the cupboard going to the doorbell transformer and a 5A 2pin socket above for a christmas lantern. Did I mention it was on a two phase intake aswell?
For that matter though BS546 is still an acceptable method of energising a house, its just not going to incorporate VIR 2 core with cotton-braded flex now if new!
Could anyone hazzard a guess when the 15A 2 pin bit the dust?
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cso
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Post by cso on Mar 10, 2011 9:40:17 GMT
15A 3 pin was untill about a decade ago used regularly for theatre and stage lighting. 15A 3 pin is still used regularly for theatre and stage lighting... 5A (3-Pin) is still occasionally used too, although not quite as often these days. |
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Post by bassmike on Mar 10, 2011 13:38:33 GMT
at one time( early60,s) there was a three-pin 5amp plug made with a clip for an internal fuse similar to the 13 amp but limited to 5amp clock point type fuses. I,ve got one in my loft connected to the lighting circuit with a one amp fuse in the plug feeding the TV booster amp; If the tv amp develops a fault , it does,nt put all the lights ouit as well.
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Post by railtechnician on Mar 10, 2011 15:34:02 GMT
LT/LU used just about every electrical fitting you might think of and then some! If you keep your eyes peeled when travelling the system you'll see 110v ac outlets all over the place which use several different fittings 2 pin round with the metal shroud as earth, standard 15A and 32A 3 pin and most interesting of all is the square 3 pin which at first glance looks like a 13A outlet but which has a yellow surround and all the pins rotated 90 degrees. This takes a square plug which has two fuses as it is 55-0-55.
There is also the 55v fitting which is very rare and which is like the two pin 110v fitting but smaller in diameter and which has a circular plug to the same pattern but coloured white.
Then there are the two pin and metal shroud 240v 5A Niphan plugs and sockets which are seen everywhere connecting various equipment such as Way Out signs to the station main and emergency domestic supplies.
In my years on the system I saw all sorts in terms of electrical standards and equipment and anything you might find in a domestic residence from the 1930s to the present day would be found somewhere. Even today there are still plenty of old Zed fuse distribution units around in the many nooks and crannies behind the scenes as well as the modern three phase CB enclosures. Of course at one time the lifts, escalators and ventilation fans all ran on 600v dc supplies before most were refurbished and supplied with three phase 415v and they all had nice open knife switches on slate boards as isolators, I last found one of those still in use at Tottenham Court Road in the mid 1990s. In fact at one time everything was open in the non-public areas including the 22kV busbars and live frame CBs in the substations.
Of course LU has rotary converters in the substations as it needs to generate single phase 600v ac signal main supplies at 125 Hz and 33 Hz from the three phase 415v 50 Hz supply.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 19:34:30 GMT
33 1/3 Hz is being gradually being phased out and being converted via equipment in the subs to 125hz. These wonderful new trains dont like 33 1/3 as it too close to 50hz so everything being slowly transfered to 125hz.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Mar 10, 2011 23:57:14 GMT
To answer the OP, I'd suggest Chiltern Court was 250v 33 1/3cs (Hz wasn't invented in those days).
I remember visiting Rayners Lane box in about 1968 where a mate was box boy/apprentice, the bobby had a TV in there which didn't work as well as it should beacause of the frequency difference.
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