|
Post by burkitt on Feb 18, 2021 20:03:28 GMT
Does anyone know if it would have been possible to ride the very last trains to both Aldwych and Ongar? The last day of service for both was 30th September 1994, so if both had trains running till the normal end of traffic then the obvious answer is "no". However, I believe Aldwych was only open in peak hours, so if the last train was early enough, it might still have been possible to get to Ongar in time... If anyone knows the exact times for the last trains serving each I would love to know if this could have been done?
|
|
|
Post by davidb on Feb 18, 2021 20:31:12 GMT
Here's a video which includes the last arrival and departure at Ongar (although admittedly it doesn't really answer your question):
|
|
gantshill
I had to change my profile pic!
Posts: 1,371
Member is Online
|
Post by gantshill on Feb 18, 2021 20:40:24 GMT
I think that they were both peak hours only by the end. I did manage to visit both branches during the final month, complete with my one-year old. (She later declined my offer to take her to Shoreditch during its last month).
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 18, 2021 20:53:36 GMT
Does anyone know if it would have been possible to ride the very last trains to both Aldwych and Ongar? The last day of service for both was 30th September 1994, so if both had trains running till the normal end of traffic then the obvious answer is "no". However, I believe Aldwych was only open in peak hours, so if the last train was early enough, it might still have been possible to get to Ongar in time... If anyone knows the exact times for the last trains serving each I would love to know if this could have been done? LURS Underground News from the time says that normally it wouldn’t have been possible to ride both last trains, however T172 departed Ongar 18mins late at 19.14 that evening. A time for the last departure from Aldwych is sadly not recorded.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 17:27:37 GMT
All I can add is that it wouldn't have been possible to "do" both last passenger trains, even if the earlier one (Aldwych) had run on time. The last scheduled departure from Aldwych was 18.28 followed by a 'staff train' departure at 18.37.
|
|
|
Post by burkitt on Feb 19, 2021 17:47:04 GMT
Thanks everyone - that's great to have the exact times for the final departures from both Aldwych and Ongar. Definitely not possible to have ridden the final trains from both stations then!
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 19, 2021 19:39:09 GMT
All I can add is that it wouldn't have been possible to "do" both last passenger trains, even if the earlier one (Aldwych) had run on time. The last scheduled departure from Aldwych was 18.28 followed by a 'staff train' departure at 18.37. I couldn't recall the exact time, but as I worked just down the road I was able to ride the last train from Holborn to Aldwych. I wasn't on the very last train back to Holborn - instead I became, as far as I am aware, the last paying passenger to have used the lift!
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Feb 20, 2021 14:09:51 GMT
I was still at School in 1994 so couldn’t have made it. I did recall getting the Aldwych shuttle as a child with my grandma (we used to go out on the trains all over London when I was little) and I still the remember the ferocious kink in the line on the approach to Aldwych (obviously the driver was ragging it! We did go to Epping once but the shuttle wasn’t operating at lunchtimes so didn’t hang around.
|
|
|
Post by 1018509 on Feb 20, 2021 17:40:18 GMT
Maybe poster "fish 7373" on here can come up with some Information about this as he rode the last train from Aldwych to Northfields depot and has a train name-board made for the occasion I believe. I know becaue I was manning the East cabin at the time and stabled the train in its usual place of 1 East
|
|
londoner
thinking on '73 stock
Posts: 480
|
Post by londoner on Feb 20, 2021 20:49:31 GMT
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Feb 28, 2021 17:58:54 GMT
I was on the last train from Ongar, but visited the Aldwych branch earlier that week. Hard to believe it’s nearly 27 years ago.
|
|
|
Post by quex on Mar 3, 2021 18:05:38 GMT
Incidentally was there any particular reason for shutting them both on the same day? The only advantage I can see could be gained from doing so is specifically preventing anyone attending both closures, and thus potentially reducing overcrowding.
A guess on my part, but given it was the end of September, was it perhaps at the same time as the leaf fall timetable was introduced that year?
|
|
|
Post by miff on Mar 4, 2021 19:22:05 GMT
Timetable changes would require new staff rosters too so also a good date to plan the removal of the rostered duties for both branches. Perhaps it eased budgeting & accounting processes too - 30th Sept being the end of the 2nd quarter of the financial year.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Mar 4, 2021 23:21:57 GMT
I don't think staff rosters or timetable changes would be particularly significant as the Picc and Central do not interwork at all.
|
|
gantshill
I had to change my profile pic!
Posts: 1,371
Member is Online
|
Post by gantshill on Mar 4, 2021 23:26:29 GMT
Presumably closing both branches on the same day meant that there was only one set of changes to ticket machines across the network.
|
|
|
Post by miff on Mar 5, 2021 12:13:24 GMT
I don't think staff rosters or timetable changes would be particularly significant as the Picc and Central do not interwork at all. I agree interworking wasn’t an issue. My speculation was that since staff would have to be redeployed and/or rosters re-planned as a result of the branch closures it might have made sense to coincide the preparation of all this with the planning also necessary for a timetable change- if there was one on that date.
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 5, 2021 12:34:47 GMT
Incidentally was there any particular reason for shutting them both on the same day? The only advantage I can see could be gained from doing so is specifically preventing anyone attending both closures, and thus potentially reducing overcrowding. A guess on my part, but given it was the end of September, was it perhaps at the same time as the leaf fall timetable was introduced that year? Timetable changes would require new staff rosters too so also a good date to plan the removal of the rostered duties for both branches. Perhaps it eased budgeting & accounting processes too - 30th Sept being the end of the 2nd quarter of the financial year. I don't think staff rosters or timetable changes would be particularly significant as the Picc and Central do not interwork at all. I agree interworking wasn’t an issue. My speculation was that since staff would have to be redeployed and/or rosters re-planned as a result of the branch closures it might have made sense to coincide the preparation of all this with the planning also necessary for a timetable change- if there was one on that date. There wasn't a Working Timetable change on the PICC at that time, WTT28 introduced 29/05/1994, WTT29 introduced 28/05/1995 - there was probably a Timetable Notice to remove the Aldwych branch. Central Line, WTT53 introduced /11/1992, WTT55 introduced 11/06/1995. Unfortunately no date for WTT54.
|
|
|
Post by quex on Mar 5, 2021 20:58:25 GMT
There wasn't a Working Timetable change on the PICC at that time, WTT28 introduced 29/05/1994, WTT29 introduced 28/05/1995 - there was probably a Timetable Notice to remove the Aldwych branch. Central Line, WTT53 introduced /11/1992, WTT55 introduced 11/06/1995. Unfortunately no date for WTT54. Thanks for that information. I suspect miff hit the nail on the head with: Perhaps it eased budgeting & accounting processes too - 30th Sept being the end of the 2nd quarter of the financial year.
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Mar 7, 2021 16:42:26 GMT
There wasn't a Working Timetable change on the PICC at that time, WTT28 introduced 29/05/1994, WTT29 introduced 28/05/1995 - there was probably a Timetable Notice to remove the Aldwych branch. Central Line, WTT53 introduced /11/1992, WTT55 introduced 11/06/1995. Unfortunately no date for WTT54. Thanks for that information. I suspect miff hit the nail on the head with: Perhaps it eased budgeting & accounting processes too - 30th Sept being the end of the 2nd quarter of the financial year. 4 week accounting was used by LT at the time and still used by TfL today. So 13 four week periods in their financial year.
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Mar 7, 2021 18:48:04 GMT
So quarterly accounting compares three 12 week periods with a final 16 week period!
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Mar 9, 2021 21:34:42 GMT
So quarterly accounting compares three 12 week periods with a final 16 week period! They don't use or need quarters. The system uses 4 weekly accounting with reports issued accordingly.
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Mar 10, 2021 2:58:58 GMT
So quarterly accounting compares three 12 week periods with a final 16 week period! They don't use or need quarters. The system uses 4 weekly accounting with reports issued accordingly. But many TfL financial reports to committees do compare quarters, sometimes with a warning that not all quarters are the same size.
|
|
|
Post by miff on Mar 10, 2021 21:03:20 GMT
So, if it wasn’t ‘end of the quarter’ accounting or a new timetable, what was the reason for closing both branches on the same day?
Since the Alydwych lifts were worn out I guess someone had to estimate the date after which they could no longer be certified or maintained without great expense. The statutory closure procedure would then need to commence many months in advance since there’s always a political risk that the closure might be refused or the process prolonged.
With the Ongar branch it’s perhaps less clear cut since it had been losing money for decades and there was a long standing desire to get rid of it if the politics allowed. Previous attempts to close the Ongar branch had failed but this time, during the London Regional Transport era, LUL was more tightly controlled by central government than before.
So maybe the Ongar closure timetable was led by the Aldwych one - senior management might have decided if they had to go through the statutory closure process (with all the attendant political pressures both upon them and on the government) for one branch it might be a good opportunity to do the other at the same time. Once both closure decisions were confirmed LUL would have chosen the earliest practicable implementation date.
|
|