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Post by A60stock on Jan 23, 2021 14:25:57 GMT
Does anyone know what timetable is being run on the met this weekend between harrow and all north destinations?
Also why have chiltern decided to run units too long to stop at rickmansworth?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 23, 2021 15:07:22 GMT
According to this tweet it appears to be linked to planned engineering work:
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 23, 2021 15:21:26 GMT
It’s the standard “closed south of Harrow” pattern; TTN14/21 refers:
-4tph Harrow-Watford all stations (ex-Harrow siding)
-6tph Harrow-Uxbridge all stations (ex-Harrow 6)
-2tph Harrow-Chesham all stations (ex-Harrow siding)
-2tph Harrow-Amersham fast (ex-Harrow 2)
Chiltern services are lengthened to 6 cars throughout due to higher loadings MYB-HOH, making them too long for RKY platforms.
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Jan 23, 2021 16:32:26 GMT
This is a first for me to hear about lengthened trains for this service
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 23, 2021 21:00:03 GMT
It's not unusual; there's a number of trains that are booked 6-car in the morning and evening peaks and are booked to non-stop Ricky. Today's arrangements generally happen whenever there is a closure south of Harrow.
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Post by philthetube on Jan 24, 2021 14:18:02 GMT
Presumably Chiltern cannot crew the shuttles they usually run between Harrow and Marylebone when the MET is closed south of harrow, so a compromise is to run 6 car trains, social distancing will also be relevant to the decision, as said higher up in thread, 6 cars are too long for Ricky.
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Post by A60stock on Jan 24, 2021 18:14:14 GMT
I think I was more surprised that they didnt just decide to go with a 5 car arrangement which would surely be long enough to ensure social distancing and also allow stopping at ricky
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Post by A60stock on Jan 24, 2021 18:20:03 GMT
It’s the standard “closed south of Harrow” pattern; TTN14/21 refers: -4tph Harrow-Watford all stations (ex-Harrow siding) -6tph Harrow-Uxbridge all stations (ex-Harrow 6) -2tph Harrow-Chesham all stations (ex-Harrow siding) -2tph Harrow-Amersham fast (ex-Harrow 2) Chiltern services are lengthened to 6 cars throughout due to higher loadings MYB-HOH, making them too long for RKY platforms. Interesting that the local service between harrow and moor park still gets 6 trains an hour and also allows a fast service to be run. Perhaps this should be a permanent feature of future off peak timetables and would enable a fairer balance between needs of the end of the line folk and zone 5/6 folk! |
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Post by peterc on Jan 24, 2021 21:53:34 GMT
It’s the standard “closed south of Harrow” pattern; TTN14/21 refers: -4tph Harrow-Watford all stations (ex-Harrow siding) -6tph Harrow-Uxbridge all stations (ex-Harrow 6) -2tph Harrow-Chesham all stations (ex-Harrow siding) -2tph Harrow-Amersham fast (ex-Harrow 2) Chiltern services are lengthened to 6 cars throughout due to higher loadings MYB-HOH, making them too long for RKY platforms. Interesting that the local service between harrow and moor park still gets 6 trains an hour and also allows a fast service to be run. Perhaps this should be a permanent feature of future off peak timetables and would enable a fairer balance between needs of the end of the line folk and zone 5/6 folk! Chesham should get the fasts as already Amersham has a fast service provided by Chiltern. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 25, 2021 20:18:32 GMT
Chesham should get the fasts as already Amersham has a fast service provided by Chiltern. My thought too I'm surprised that Ricky cannot accept a 6 carriage DMU train. During Steam on The Met trains formed of 6x Mk1 / Mk2 passenger carriages plus steam / diesel / electric locos would call here. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 25, 2021 20:44:48 GMT
The class 165 cars are longer than the mk1 and Mk2 coaches so it might just push them over the limit.
The other reason might be that the outer ends of the coaches weren’t used for passengers so perhaps we’re just beyond the platform?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 25, 2021 21:16:13 GMT
The class 165s will also be using OPO equipment which dictates the stopping position while crew-operated trains like the Steam on the Met runs are a lot more flexible.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 25, 2021 22:04:53 GMT
Interesting that the local service between harrow and moor park still gets 6 trains an hour and also allows a fast service to be run. Perhaps this should be a permanent feature of future off peak timetables and would enable a fairer balance between needs of the end of the line folk and zone 5/6 folk! Chesham should get the fasts as already Amersham has a fast service provided by Chiltern. However the Chesham service runs directly in front/behind Chiltern services, making the reversal in Harrow 2 problematic without many additional retimings. Let’s not forget that the time savings of fast versus all stations trains is negligible. |
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Post by A60stock on Jan 26, 2021 0:22:00 GMT
Chesham should get the fasts as already Amersham has a fast service provided by Chiltern. However the Chesham service runs directly in front/behind Chiltern services, making the reversal in Harrow 2 problematic without many additional retimings. Let’s not forget that the time savings of fast versus all stations trains is negligible. Re the point about platform 2 reversals: Think the point was about running the cheshams fast during normal off peak times where they would run into baker Street/city. Also, surely the time difference from moor park to Finchley on a fast Vs all stations is significant? (Assuming fast skips Wembley too) |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 26, 2021 0:41:38 GMT
The current working timetable available on the LU website (Timetable Notice No. 220/20) gives the following inter-station timings in minutes: | | nb | sb | | Finchley Road and Harrow-on-the-Hill (Non-stop) | 11 | 10½ | | Finchley Road and Harrow-on-the-Hill (all stations) | 14 | 14 | | | | Wembley Park and Harrow-on-the-Hill (Non-stop) | 5 | 4½ | | Wembley Park and Harrow-on-the-Hill (all stations) | 7 | 7 | | | | Harrow-on-the-Hill and Moor Park (Non-stop) | 7½§ | 9§ | | Harrow-on-the-Hill and Moor Park (all stations) | 12½ | 12½ |
§ Additional 1 minute allowed for trains departing from Harrow-on-the-Hill platform 3 nb northbound sb southbound If my maths is correct, this gives a maximum saving of 8 minutes between Finchley Road and Moor Park. |
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Post by philthetube on Jan 26, 2021 14:21:01 GMT
Interesting numbers, the times from Harrow to Moor park don't sound right, 60mph against making four stops on route. additionally you need an extra minute to cross from the local to the fast between Moor Park and Ricky.
Just checked from the info I have, not a timetable
Moor Park Ricky Fast N/B 11.5 mins, local 17.5 mins, this ties in with your info.
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Post by A60stock on Jan 27, 2021 15:26:12 GMT
The current working timetable available on the LU website (Timetable Notice No. 220/20) gives the following inter-station timings in minutes: | | nb | sb | | Finchley Road and Harrow-on-the-Hill (Non-stop) | 11 | 10½ | | Finchley Road and Harrow-on-the-Hill (all stations) | 14 | 14 | | | | Wembley Park and Harrow-on-the-Hill (Non-stop) | 5 | 4½ | | Wembley Park and Harrow-on-the-Hill (all stations) | 7 | 7 | | | | Harrow-on-the-Hill and Moor Park (Non-stop) | 7½§ | 9§ | | Harrow-on-the-Hill and Moor Park (all stations) | 12½ | 12½ |
§ Additional 1 minute allowed for trains departing from Harrow-on-the-Hill platform 3 nb northbound sb southbound If my maths is correct, this gives a maximum saving of 8 minutes between Finchley Road and Moor Park. May I ask (and appreciate this may be difficult to answer) what the point of building all the infrastructure for a fast service in the 50s/60s (prior to the A stock being introduced) was given that this only saves 8 mins? |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 27, 2021 16:35:36 GMT
Two possibilities come to mind - firstly capacity and secondly the difference was possibly greater with older stock that had significantly slower acceleration (and braking?) than modern stock. I know there are several people on this forum with old working timetables who should be able to help with the latter (I can't immediately find any online from the relevant period).
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jan 27, 2021 19:38:48 GMT
There were services which non-stopped Harrow until the early 1990s - I've assumed (perhaps wrongly) that they were fast from Finchley Road to at least Moor Park, as spsmiler's video shows: We mustn't forget that at the time of the 4-tracking, the Metropolitan line was shared with British Railways services from Marylebone to Manchester and Sheffield, though they didn't last for very long. |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 27, 2021 19:49:35 GMT
The quadrupling plans dated back before WWII and would have separated steam services from Marylebone from electric stopping services.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 27, 2021 20:10:48 GMT
Yes the fast services back in the day were non-stop between Finchley Road and Moor Park/North Harrow/Rayners Lane.
Anyway, as much fun as reminiscing is, let’s get back on topic....
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Post by A60stock on Jan 28, 2021 11:00:14 GMT
When was the last timetable (and year) in which non stopping watford/uxbridge/chesham which skipped harrow on the hill featured?
Did fast uxbridge's pass west harrow at the full 70mph?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jan 28, 2021 14:45:02 GMT
I doubt it, considering the points were only just East of West Harrow, and the line speed on the Uxbridge branch was only 50mph.
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Post by A60stock on Mar 14, 2021 15:25:57 GMT
TFL showing no Amersham service until 19.00. Whats the reason for this as Chiltern are running there fine.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 14, 2021 15:46:43 GMT
TFL showing no Amersham service until 19.00. Whats the reason for this as Chiltern are running there fine. Reduced service operating due to unavailability of Control staff at Hammersmith. 22 MET trains cancelled, Chiltern were suspended 1210-1240 also. Looks like: 4 trains each to Chesham, Watford and Uxbridge. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Mar 15, 2021 7:16:22 GMT
Chiltern were operating an enhanced service over the Met, and thus the decision was made for them to provide the full service to Amersham.
Staff shortages are hitting multiple parts of the Met hard at the moment (although that goes without saying!).
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Post by A60stock on Mar 15, 2021 13:52:27 GMT
What was the enhanced service Chiltern were running?
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