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Post by spsmiler on Sept 27, 2021 9:16:11 GMT
Had a disaster when painting a Q38 DM ... it was not securely enough fixed to where it was and the spray paint pushed it over - so it fell on the floor! Since I was in the garden (because of the smell of the spray paint) it landed on some soil. Brushing it off did not work.
So I now have a choice, either I use dettol to strip the paint off and start again or I 'distress' the Q38 DM, painting the surface blemishes as rust.
re: the citadel green paint, I have found a worthy alternative - at Hobby Craft. Its their own brand, paint number 6309481012 Green and its a lot cheaper than the Citadel paint too. however, whereas the Citadel paint seems to be thin enough for using with an airbrush undiluted the Hobbycraft paint is much thicker. But since the seats are being painted using a brush this is better, as it means I need less paint (can still thin it, if desired).
Also, after using the green paint on the seats I added some white (to the green that had been poured on to my paint tray!) and used the much lighter green to paint some clothing on model people. Painting model people is a Herculean task that to preserve sanity is best accomplished either in small batches or when wearing headphones and listening to a podcast. I am yet to paint the inside the trains. Primarily this will be just the walls, doors and ceiling. As I will be fitting interior lights I think these will need doing - erm, I'm not adding adverts / route maps etc; possibly these would need doing in O gauge but not in OO.
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 30, 2021 21:24:42 GMT
I’ve done that before. Dropping it on the floor is a nightmare. Perhaps a bit of wet and dry might work and then a touch up the paint. Dettol might well work too.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 2, 2021 20:52:17 GMT
I’ve done that before. Dropping it on the floor is a nightmare. Perhaps a bit of wet and dry might work and then a touch up the paint. Dettol might well work too. Thanks. I am considering using weathering paints so maybe a few paintwork flaws / blemishes (after I've repaired the paint damage) won't matter. Then there is rust... I've recall seeing around the roof guttering on trains such as the CP stock in their twilight days. I've discovered another issue regarding Cerulean Blue. In the photos below the colour in the first train looks lighter than the colour in the second image. The first image even has a slight bluish tint. (image source: www.abc.net.au/news/image/4459284-3x2-940x627.jpg - the website used this image with permission from TfL, I hope my embedding this image is not breaching copyright regulations) 1938TubeDM-LTMuseum-P1400078(one of my images) Maybe its just photography... but from my experience the Citadel paint is even darker than the colour in the photo I took at the LT Museum. edit to add: I should have done this ages ago... I looked up this colour on the internet and got a HEX colour specification (#32A189), from which I made the image below: This really does have a blue tint! Comparing this colour rectangle with the 1938TS car at the LT museum I suspect that LT may have changed the colour very slightly - I now suspect that the confusion has come about because all my photos from the 1970s and 1980s which show the insides of trains painted with this colour show the newer (more green) version. Perhaps to match the dark green colour in the seat fabric.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 3, 2021 6:44:55 GMT
I've discovered another issue regarding Cerulean Blue. In the photos below the colour in the first train looks lighter than the colour in the second image. The first image even has a slight bluish tint. Maybe its just photography... but from my experience the Citadel paint is even darker than the colour in the photo I took at the LT Museum. Looking at the seat moquette, the photos are about 50 years apart, so photography certainly is different.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 4, 2021 9:21:37 GMT
I've ordered a 1923 DM from Radleys and am thinking of painting it in the original 1923 livery, which is similar to the Heritage livery being worn by the 1959ts train seen below. 1959-Heritage-Train at Morden during the depot open day event in November 1990When first built the 1923 trains had differently coloured train doors - my photograph shows this on the cab doors but it also applied to the passenger doors - which being open cannot be seen in this photo. So... they are probably compliant with present-era visual disability regulations! For a while they also had the line name on their sides, which for the ones that ran on what we nowadays call the Northern line was Morden - Edgware Line. As an aside, I was surprised to discover that my 1990 Morden Depot Open Day photos of the Standard stock train with some of the trailers in this livery (and a DM in Network SouthEast livery) are not on Flickr. Thats an omission I need to rectify!
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 5, 2021 19:00:10 GMT
I have also been doing other things too, but finally, the signal is almost completed. making it has not been that difficult, rather its been a saga of trials and tribulations, such as when the green pre-wired smd LED light (just as I thought I could glue it) lost its negative power supply wire and I had to replace it - a task that required me to thread two power supply wires through a signal post that was also a very tight fit. Oh and the hole at the top of the signal post was very small so that I could barely see what I was doing! As some people will know, many London Underground signals have an extra downwards facing light that is easier for train drivers to see when they have drawn right up to the signal. I got this to work too!
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 5, 2021 20:03:08 GMT
Looks great.
The 1923 driving motor from Radley Models is I think one of the ballast motors so you will need to open up the windows. Is it the Cammell Laird or MCCW type you want to do?
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 6, 2021 20:28:05 GMT
The earliest Standard Stock DM (as a passenger car) they sell is from a 1926/7 batch.
What I did not realise is that Radley do not include a seating unit for the DM's. On discovering this my next thought was to buy a control trailer / trailer seating unit but with these the seats are integral with the chassis, and anyway the door / window spacing is different than the DM's - so that option is also not viable. When I make my next purchase I will ask if the 1931 DM's have seating units and if not then I will have to use cardboard or plasticard to create the seats. Probably I'll attach these seats to the inside of the body shell.
Seats are important as I will be including model passengers and working internal lighting, so I very much expect what is inside the trains will be seen. I am using HO scale passengers bought cheaply from eBay and what I have from when I was modelling railways 30-40 years ago. Being slightly small it usually means that HO passengers do not need their legs chopping off to get them to fit in the transverse seats. Also, whilst they will be painted it will be only 'lightly'. eg: jackets will be painted - but not shirt and ties!
re: the tube car liveries, I think that if it was OK for a 1959 Northern line train to wear 1923 livery then it will be OK for a one part of a 1927 Standard Stock train to also wear that livery. I am thinking of having each of the three tube cars in this train wearing a representation of a different livery that these trains wore in their time in service. It would be nice if the real LU Standard Stock train also did the same - there are at least four versions that I can think of, and thats before thinking of their second lives on the Isle of Wight. What I need to do is find the correct colour codes for the cream window bands and dark red doors.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 6, 2021 23:01:30 GMT
StandardStck1990MordenDepotOpenDay3This is 1923 trailer No. 7296, painted in a 1930s livery (with red doors) which included naming the line it ran on. This is 1925 control trailer No. 5279, painted in 1923 livery edit to add: According to page 16 of the London Underground Railway Society publication "Standard" Tube Stock - A Photographic History By Brian Hardy (Part One) the specification of the prototypes of these trains cited a livery of vermillion, black and cream. Vermillion is an orange-red. I state this because it seems that the adopted livery was different - the train doors look quite different to the cited livery colours (dark berry, perhaps?), although this livery seen here would very likely meet the present-day requirements for contrasting door colours.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 7, 2021 8:59:06 GMT
This is 1923 trailer No. 7296, painted in a 1930s livery (with red doors) which included naming the line it ran on. This is 1925 control trailer No. 5279, painted in 1923 livery Carrying its original number, I see. I can't make out the number on the trailer, but the original number of 7296 was 846,which doesnot appear to be the number on the side of the car.
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 7, 2021 18:27:19 GMT
The earliest Standard Stock DM (as a passenger car) they sell is from a 1926/7 batch. What I did not realise is that Radley do not include a seating unit for the DM's. On discovering this my next thought was to buy a control trailer / trailer seating unit but with these the seats are integral with the chassis, and anyway the door / window spacing is different than the DM's - so that option is also not viable. When I make my next purchase I will ask if the 1931 DM's have seating units and if not then I will have to use cardboard or plasticard to create the seats. Probably I'll attach these seats to the inside of the body shell. Seats are important as I will be including model passengers and working internal lighting, so I very much expect what is inside the trains will be seen. I am using HO scale passengers bought cheaply from eBay and what I have from when I was modelling railways 30-40 years ago. Being slightly small it usually means that HO passengers do not need their legs chopping off to get them to fit in the transverse seats. Also, whilst they will be painted it will be only 'lightly'. eg: jackets will be painted - but not shirt and ties! re: the tube car liveries, I think that if it was OK for a 1959 Northern line train to wear 1923 livery then it will be OK for a one part of a 1927 Standard Stock train to also wear that livery. I am thinking of having each of the three tube cars in this train wearing a representation of a different livery that these trains wore in their time in service. It would be nice if the real LU Standard Stock train also did the same - there are at least four versions that I can think of, and thats before thinking of their second lives on the Isle of Wight. What I need to do is find the correct colour codes for the cream window bands and dark red doors. None of the standard stock driving motors have seats as I haven’t made them yet! I will get round to it as I am retooling the 1926/27 motor car. The seats will be separate as I think the motor chassis should be white metal. The current 1927 is more akin to the 1924 MCCW car. Phil used to do a 1925 C Laird car too.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 7, 2021 23:31:48 GMT
This is 1923 trailer No. 7296, painted in a 1930s livery (with red doors) which included naming the line it ran on. This is 1925 control trailer No. 5279, painted in 1923 livery Carrying its original number, I see. I can't make out the number on the trailer, but the original number of 7296 was 846,which doesnot appear to be the number on the side of the car. I wish I had taken more photos but was also filming video - so needed to film everything twice! btw, did you see all the external rivets on the the control trailer? I think only Cammell Laird built their versions like this - not the other train builders.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 7, 2021 23:39:48 GMT
None of the standard stock driving motors have seats as I haven’t made them yet! I will get round to it as I am retooling the 1926/27 motor car. The seats will be separate as I think the motor chassis should be white metal. The current 1927 is more akin to the 1924 MCCW car. Phil used to do a 1925 C Laird car too. Thanks, I'll be interested in having one, when it is ready. Also the Waterloo & City DM - but only with trailers / not as a single car. Time is not an issue, especially as it will soon be too cold to paint (using spray cans) outdoors. To answer a previous question, I am more interested in having a representative of the train types, it never occurred to me to wish for anything built by one train builder over the others.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2021 17:07:42 GMT
As some people will know, many London Underground signals have an extra downwards facing light that is easier for train drivers to see when they have drawn right up to the signal. I got this to work too! It’s called a Pigs Ear
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 15, 2021 21:03:58 GMT
Thanks, I knew that - what I do not know is why I did not use that term in my message ... must of written it late at night when half asleep
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 19, 2021 11:41:33 GMT
In addition to colour light signals I've also bought some model trains from Shapeways. The person whose shop there has these trains only sells the body - no wheels, bogies, underframe, seats, etc. This is a shame as the range includes an extensive range of Metropolitan and District Railway trains. Plus many, many types of mainline trains - the Big Four and some of their predecessors. There are also trains from overseas, model building segments and more. Included in what I've bought are two LNER Tyneside Electrics passenger carriages. As models they are OK, but the 3D printing material used is very coarse and grainy, which is a shame as this means that they will need a LOT of sanding to get the smooth sides appropriate for metal sided rolling stock. Website home page: www.rue-d-etropal.com/Passenger coaches etc index: www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/3d_printed_sg-trains2.htm
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 20, 2021 10:39:39 GMT
I've edited (added extra information) to two of the messages which contain photographs on the previous page - in both cases the new data was added at the end of the message.
One of these shows the Standard stock train at the 1990 Morden Depot Open Day (extra livery information)
The other message is about Cerulean Blue (photos show inside 1938ts cars).
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 21, 2021 19:17:47 GMT
In addition to colour light signals I've also bought some model trains from Shapeways. The person whose shop there has these trains only sells the body - no wheels, bogies, underframe, seats, etc. This is a shame as the range includes an extensive range of Metropolitan and District Railway trains. Plus many, many types of mainline trains - the Big Four and some of their predecessors. There are also trains from overseas, model building segments and more. Included in what I've bought are two LNER Tyneside Electrics passenger carriages. As models they are OK, but the 3D printing material used is very coarse and grainy, which is a shame as this means that they will need a LOT of sanding to get the smooth sides appropriate for metal sided rolling stock. Website home page: www.rue-d-etropal.com/Passenger coaches etc index: www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/3d_printed_sg-trains2.htmThe range is quite impressive but as you say the finish is very ordinary especially for the price. $100 for just the body is a lot and the amount of sanding required is ridiculous. They are a good base for a model though so if you don’t mind a lot or work it can save you scratch building. Models with lots of detail however such as mouldings are a waste of time as they will be lost.
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Post by billbedford on Oct 22, 2021 9:26:58 GMT
In addition to colour light signals I've also bought some model trains from Shapeways. The person whose shop there has these trains only sells the body - no wheels, bogies, underframe, seats, etc. This is a shame as the range includes an extensive range of Metropolitan and District Railway trains. Plus many, many types of mainline trains - the Big Four and some of their predecessors. There are also trains from overseas, model building segments and more. Included in what I've bought are two LNER Tyneside Electrics passenger carriages. As models they are OK, but the 3D printing material used is very coarse and grainy, which is a shame as this means that they will need a LOT of sanding to get the smooth sides appropriate for metal sided rolling stock. Website home page: www.rue-d-etropal.com/Passenger coaches etc index: www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/3d_printed_sg-trains2.htmThe range is quite impressive but as you say the finish is very ordinary especially for the price. $100 for just the body is a lot and the amount of sanding required is ridiculous. They are a good base for a model though so if you don’t mind a lot or work it can save you scratch building. Models with lots of detail however such as mouldings are a waste of time as they will be lost. The nylon these models are made from doesn't sand very easily. The trick is use a filler primer to build up the surface so the sides are smooth when just the high spots of nylon start to show through.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 22, 2021 18:59:34 GMT
The range is quite impressive but as you say the finish is very ordinary especially for the price. $100 for just the body is a lot and the amount of sanding required is ridiculous. They are a good base for a model though so if you don’t mind a lot or work it can save you scratch building. Models with lots of detail however such as mouldings are a waste of time as they will be lost. The nylon these models are made from doesn't sand very easily. The trick is use a filler primer to build up the surface so the sides are smooth when just the high spots of nylon start to show through. The visual effect is not dissimilar to the buildings I saw in Berlin on my 1989 visit which were close to the infamous wall and were still covered in pockmarks from the very heavy shelling during WW2. Not realising the situation, before buying the Shapeways models I only bought some fine 'wet and dry' sandpaper. I think I ought to get a more coarse version. I've also reduced my planned purchases because the work required looks like it will be 'just too much'. All in all it feels like I had what I had hoped would be a juicy carrot dangled in front of me but when I bit into it I found that it was actually dry and barely palatable. A big shame.
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 2, 2021 11:41:06 GMT
I have found a green paint that more closely matches the Cerulean Blue that is seen in the historic 1938ts photo seen in this thread.
However and alas, I've had a small painting snafu -when painting the inside of a few Standard Stock cars some paint escaped through the windows so that it is visible on the outside - where there should be red paint.
I did not see this when painting as the windows were still fully covered in masking tape - I painted the interiors directly after the paint on the train roofs had dried and only removed the masking tape after the insides had also dried.
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 19, 2021 23:34:25 GMT
This image shows my painting snafu, although the use of a flash has distorted the green colour. Earlier today I repainted the train sides, at present the two cars involved are in the garden shed so that the paint can dry. Why are the roofs brown? Someone (who I wont name) told me that this is correct. I feel sure that it isn't and I need to get some Wilko paint stripper to remove it. I suppose that I could also lightly paint over the brown but I am concerned that the paint will become too thick and mask the roof detail. I need to buy grey paint... Also today I spray painted the undercoat of a 1967ts four car unit. These too are in the shed drying... Because the weather is getting colder it may be a while before I am able to do any more 'rattle-can' spray painting. Because of the profusion of options Radley do not supply wheels. Can anyone recommend where I could get these? They need to be 9mm - most retailers only have larger wheel - 10mm - 14mm. I also recently bought the Bachmann Art Deco platform waiting room that is modelled on Harrow-On-The-Hill station. I was going to scratchbuild something like this but it was easier to just buy. I am still scratchbuilding a canopy roof extension. To make it match the Bachman unit I've had to build this almost a scale 2ft thick (8mm!) As the photos show, I've added people and tube map inside the waiting room, plus lights. These are a self-adhesive warm white LED strip that I had bought to use inside one of the Standard Stock tube cars. It looks much more yellow in the photo than real life. The station name roundel was bought as part of a special offer (for members only) from the London Underground Railway Society in the late 1990s. I installed it late at night without looking at any photos of the real thing... I wanted to use this sign because of the 'way out' at the bottom but probably should have cut it out from the white background. btw, my inspiration for the seating layout inside these waiting rooms (West Hampstead station)...
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 20, 2021 22:40:37 GMT
Today I've been busy with the roof for the rest of the platform canopy. It is only 6 1/4 inches (16cm) long, as part of the platform will be covered in a completely different way. One end will be glued to the Bachmann waiting room unit and to hold the rest of the canopy I am using K&S brass H-Column No. #815010. It would have been far easier to use Evergreen or Plastruct plastic (I could have cut it using my plastic 'chopper' instead of a hacksaw) but I chose metal because I wanted greater strength than plastic offers - in case anything ever drops on to the canopy. My inspiration for the 'not at all visually attractive' H-Column comes from seeing this being used at Woodford and Hainault stations.
As an aside, elsewhere at both stations they also use historic circular canopy support poles, with the Hainault variant including the letters GER (the station was originally built by the Great Eastern Railway). Woodford does not have this (it was first built by the Eastern Counties Railway) but it does have some seats with GER lettering scrollwork in the seat bench support.
Returning to my station, the H-Column will be painted (its already been sprayed with an etching primer). I will also paint the underside of the canopy roof extension, and to ensure that it matches I will probably have to also paint the underside of the Bachmann canopy.
I am yet to choose colours, I am thinking of keeping the roof grey* and making the H-Column beige or cream.
*)It just so happens that I recently bought some Vallejo paint in a colour called 'London Grey'! I just hope that water-based acrylic paints will not distort the cardboard canopy. I think it might be a good idea to first conduct a test on cut-off piece of scrap cardboard.
Simon
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 21, 2021 14:58:13 GMT
Hi Simon
Looking good. The roofs of overhauled stock were brown (bauxite) colour so this is correct. I however hate the colour! The brown went grey very quickly though so I’ve painted my stock with grey/black roofs.
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 22, 2021 10:12:14 GMT
Hi Simon Looking good. The roofs of overhauled stock were brown (bauxite) colour so this is correct. I however hate the colour! The brown went grey very quickly though so I’ve painted my stock with grey/black roofs. Ah, so they were not brown / bauxite when brand new. I should have use this photo as my guide - would have saved me much time & hassle. StandardStck1990MordenDepotOpenDay1I need to research Halfords spray paints, preferably I want dark grey, matt. I dislike the sheen of the gloss. Interesting door colour too - this livery would probably be compliant with present-day door livery requirements!
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 25, 2021 10:01:41 GMT
They were bauxite on overhaul but went grey very quickly. When new I expect they were grey (felt?).
The 1938 stock had a white lead colour when new and anyone who has cream carpets knows this is a recipe for disaster!
I used Halfords Peugeot Hurricane grey for some stock but added a Matt varnish to dull it down.
The other options are Halfords Camouflage spray paints. They do a grey, black and brown (among others) which are Matt and also good for track and scenery.
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 25, 2021 18:30:41 GMT
Thanks for the info.
Camouflage paint sounds good as I prefer a matt finish - especially for the train roofs.
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 3, 2021 20:33:19 GMT
slow progress, I hope to have something to show next weekend
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 14, 2021 12:25:33 GMT
The portion of the platform shelter which I fabricated myself has now been glued to the portion that is a Bachmann model.
I had to paint the ceiling underside of both portions as it was the only way to get matching colours. I decided that since I am painting I might as well do it in a colour that matches other parts of the station - which is cream. This is the colour that my Kingsway tube station platforms kit uses. btw: I used a rattle can spray paint - not a brush.
After painting the platform shelter I waited a few days to let the paint thoroughly dry and then varnished it. This was yesterday, Monday. I left it overnight in the greenhouse to dry. As we are in winter and the greenhouse is unheated I left it in a heated plant propagator which is about 20 deg C / 68 deg F.
This morning I retrieved it from the greenhouse and to my horror have found that the varnish has caused the paint colour to change to a pale pink / red hue. Its awful!
I hope that this does not happen when I use varnish on the model trains I am building!
I've already decided that the best way forward is to line the underside of the platform shelter with paper / card that is similar in colour to the 1930s style Kingsway platform kit. I will lose the ceiling panel effect but it will be better than repainting it again. To make life easier (I hope!!!) I will first use cheap photo copier paper so that I have a 'pattern' for cutting the more expensive coloured thin card.
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 28, 2021 1:23:22 GMT
progress is painfully slow, as I am also working on my website and creating new films last week I affixed most of the self-coloured card over the painted underside of the shelter and used superglue gel to affix some of the floor to ceiling canopy support poles. Now I am waiting for online shops to reopen for me to sort out the lighting, the part under the roof will mimic fluorescent lights, although the components I have to use are a little larger than fully to scale I've also bought a tall free-standing twin lamp Viessmann light from the Modelbahn - Lippe shop in Germany. viessmann-modell.com/en/product-range/gauge-h0/led-lamps/64/h0-slim-street-light-double-led-white?c=241I did search online for a UK shop that sells these lights, but without success. On eBay the retailers wanted circa £15 postage - the German's I am buying from will charge €9.90 for the whole package, which includes other items not available here. They also sell at a discounted price! I only bought the one (along with other items) as I want to be sure it looks OK. This light is tall with twin straight fluorescent tubes, if it looks OK I will buy more on my next order with them. I originally wanted to use some 1930s style art deco concrete lights but I'd have to make them myself and everything else is taking so long that I'm concerned it will take forever. Anyway, I will have more than one station... on that topic, I hope that a UK model railway supplier adds to their product range a really modern station with glass wall fronatage, such as those being built for Crossrail.
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