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Post by tubetraveller on Jun 4, 2020 21:21:11 GMT
Does anybody have any further info or pictures of the ex BR coaches that London Underground purchased for steam events in the 90s?
I've found a couple of videos of two of them from afar, plus a few pictures where an end happens to be in shot, but nothing much else.
It looks like a Mk 1 (BSK 35011) and a Mk2C (3152) were painted into a new livery and used in the early 90s. Are there any clear photos of this?
3152 appears to have been converted from an FO to SO configuration at some point. Does anybody know if this was before or after their life with LU?
It looks like three additional Mk2s were purchased in 1995:
5458 Mk.2B TSO
5495 Mk.2B TSO
5497 Mk.2B TSO
Does anybody know what livery they carried, or if they were ever used by LU after purchase?
Thanks in advance if anybody has any more pictures, or can point me in the right direction of where I might find some more info about them!
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Post by tjw on Jun 5, 2020 14:37:25 GMT
At Steam on the MET 2000 we had two sets of carriages so they could have parallel running up from Harrow on The Hill. The two sets of I think 6 carriages, consisted of 2 TC sets plus some Mk2s, and MK1s? The Mk2 were in a very bad way with rust holes in the collision pillars and I did wonder how long before a door would fall off as they opened. Mk2 doors are very heavy.
All were painted in MET maroon apart from the 2 Mk1s? that were in inter city livery.
Do a google search for "Steam on the Meet 2000" for video on Youtube and some images usually of the Steam Locomotives rather than a carriages. I think the carriage no.s appeared in Underground news, my copies are buried in my parents attic so cannot check easily.
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Post by bassmike on Jun 5, 2020 19:05:19 GMT
There were some (three I think? ) used on the steam special from Upminster to Upney and back on Upminster depot open day @ 1998 or so.
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Post by pauluni on Jun 6, 2020 14:51:27 GMT
If I remember correctly the coaching stock used for Steam on the Met and District was as follows:
Steam on the Met 89 - a unit hired from Network SouthEast & 35011
Steam on the Met 90 - 35011, 3152 & a unit hired from Network SouthEast
Steam on the District 90 - 3152 & 35011
Steam on the Met 92 & Steam on the Met 93 (Harrow-Amersham weekend) - 4TC & 3TC
Steam on the Met 93 (Watford-Amersham weekend) & Steam on the Met 94 - 1st set: 4TC, 2nd set: 3152 & 3TC
Steam on the District 93 - 4TC
Steam on the Met 95, 96, 98 & 99 - 1st set: 1 MK2B & 4TC, 2nd set: 2 MK2B & 3TC
Steam on the Met 2000 - 1st set: 2 MK2B & 4TC, 2nd set: MK1 TSO & FO hired in, a MK2B & 3TC
The two 4TC sets were repainted into Metropolitan Maroon when purchased, 3152 by Steam on the Met 94 and the MK2B carriages by Steam on the Met 96. 35011 was also repainted into Metropolitan Maroon at some point.
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 6, 2020 16:26:17 GMT
I think I have the identities of all the Mk1 and Mk2 passenger coaches.
I definitely have video footage of them... and at least one of the overhead wire electric emu's used in the 1980s.
I need to research...
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Post by bassmike on Jun 6, 2020 16:44:49 GMT
An O H E unit went to Chesham on a railtour I was on (cant remember the name)
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196 
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Post by Tom on Jun 6, 2020 17:45:14 GMT
It was a 305 during Steam on the Met 1989 I think?
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Post by pauluni on Jun 6, 2020 17:58:47 GMT
It was a 305 during Steam on the Met 1989 I think? 1990, 1989 was a 4VEP |
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Post by tubetraveller on Jun 7, 2020 16:33:30 GMT
Many thanks guys, all very helpful! At Steam on the MET 2000 we had two sets of carriages so they could have parallel running up from Harrow on The Hill. The two sets of I think 6 carriages, consisted of 2 TC sets plus some Mk2s, and MK1s? The Mk2 were in a very bad way with rust holes in the collision pillars and I did wonder how long before a door would fall off as they opened. Mk2 doors are very heavy. All were painted in MET maroon apart from the 2 Mk1s? that were in inter city livery. Do a google search for "Steam on the Meet 2000" for video on Youtube and some images usually of the Steam Locomotives rather than a carriages. I think the carriage no.s appeared in Underground news, my copies are buried in my parents attic so cannot check easily. That might explain why it was cheaper to buy them rather than rent a set for the weekend! They would've only been owned by LU for around five years at that point. I'll have to have a rummage around and see if I can find that copy of Underground News next time I'm at the museum depot If I remember correctly the coaching stock used for Steam on the Met and District was as follows: Steam on the Met 89 - a unit hired from Network SouthEast & 35011 Steam on the Met 90 - 35011, 3152 & a unit hired from Network SouthEast Steam on the District 90 - 3152 & 35011 Steam on the Met 92 & Steam on the Met 93 (Harrow-Amersham weekend) - 4TC & 3TC Steam on the Met 93 (Watford-Amersham weekend) & Steam on the Met 94 - 1st set: 4TC, 2nd set: 3152 & 3TC Steam on the District 93 - 4TC Steam on the Met 95, 96, 98 & 99 - 1st set: 1 MK2B & 4TC, 2nd set: 2 MK2B & 3TC Steam on the Met 2000 - 1st set: 2 MK2B & 4TC, 2nd set: MK1 TSO & FO hired in, a MK2B & 3TC The two 4TC sets were repainted into Metropolitan Maroon when purchased, 3152 by Steam on the Met 94 and the MK2B carriages by Steam on the Met 96. 35011 was also repainted into Metropolitan Maroon at some point. That's amazingly detailed, thank you. I take it the 3TC is just one of the 4TCs with a car removed? I think I have the identities of all the Mk1 and Mk2 passenger coaches. I definitely have video footage of them... and at least one of the overhead wire electric emu's used in the 1980s. I need to research... I've seen a couple of your videos on Youtube and they've been a great help already. They're pretty much the only source I've found for the two original carriages used on Steam on the Met 1989 |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 7, 2020 16:50:48 GMT
Many thanks guys, all very helpful! At Steam on the MET 2000 we had two sets of carriages so they could have parallel running up from Harrow on The Hill. The two sets of I think 6 carriages, consisted of 2 TC sets plus some Mk2s, and MK1s? The Mk2 were in a very bad way with rust holes in the collision pillars and I did wonder how long before a door would fall off as they opened. Mk2 doors are very heavy. All were painted in MET maroon apart from the 2 Mk1s? that were in inter city livery. Do a google search for "Steam on the Meet 2000" for video on Youtube and some images usually of the Steam Locomotives rather than a carriages. I think the carriage no.s appeared in Underground news, my copies are buried in my parents attic so cannot check easily. That might explain why it was cheaper to buy them rather than rent a set for the weekend! They would've only been owned by LU for around five years at that point. I'll have to have a rummage around and see if I can find that copy of Underground News next time I'm at the museum depot From UndergrounD News No.464 August 2000 "train 101 76322-70824-76298-5497-3136-4939 (3TC+Mk2+2xMk1). train 102 76324-70823-71163-76297-5458-5495 (4TC+2xMk2)". |
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 7, 2020 23:05:29 GMT
An early steam on the met event with Class 305/2 and two former BR passenger coaches in a special London Underground livery.
the steam train is seen twice, after about 5:20
I'll now search for the computer file for this film, as I can then extract the train details - these cannot be read from the train.
The staff special a few days before, passing through Wembley Park station. A *lot* of black smoke from Met No.1!
On looking at my master video file I can see that the emu is 305 513, the Mk2 is 08977*47 (asterisk slightly unclear, probably 5 but might be 3), the Mk1 Brake is 08977588 and L44 is at the rear
A compilation film showing steam On The Met trains over several years, plus other ordinary and non-passenger trains at Rickmansworth station
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 7, 2020 23:49:49 GMT
OK, data copied from the computer file made when I edited the Chorleywood film. There is some confusion here, in that I describe the Class 305 as a 305/2, when surely it should be 305/5? I must have got the incorrect information from somewhere! Although its not possible read the train numbers from the passing trains I did note the rear destination display showed Tilbury! So this unit must have come from the LTS services out of Fenchurch St Stn.
Whilst making this film I recall spending ages searching for information about these former BR coaches, reading Wikipedia pages and other online sources.
The locomotives & their wheel arrangements are:
Metropolitan Railway E Class No. 1 0-4-4T
Great Western Railway pannier tank No. 9466 0-6-0PT
London Transport battery locomotive No. L44
The passenger carriages are:
British Railways Class 305/2 ac electric multiple unit in Network SouthEast livery,
Former British Railways Mk2C First Open (FO) No. 3152,
former BR Mk1 Brake Standard Corridor (BSK) (ie: includes a guard's section) No. 35011,
- both in a special 'London Underground' livery.
re: the 1889 - 1989 Chesham Centenary Steam Train film,
This was filmed before I had a camcorder, so it was made using silent super 8 ciné film with added copyright-free music.
Below is the train information as seen on-screen:
The special train's passenger carriages comprised of
(sic) (since writing that text I have learnt that "comprised of" is bad grammar)
a British Railways Class 438 electric multiple unit 4TC (trailer control) set in Network SouthEast livery and...
...former British Railways Mark 1 BSK No. 35011 in its new identity as Brake Force Runner No. 977588 and painted in a special London Underground livery.
Brake Force Runners are carriages added to short locomotive hauled trains to improve the brake force (so that it slows down faster / in a shorter distance).
Apologies for duplicating some of what other people have said here,
I hope this helps, and thanks for watching my videos
Simon
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Post by tubetraveller on Jun 8, 2020 0:52:40 GMT
An early steam on the met event with Class 305/2 and two former BR passenger coaches in a special London Underground livery. the steam train is seen twice, after about 5:20 I'll now search for the computer file for this film, as I can then extract the train details - these cannot be read from the train. The staff special a few days before, passing through Wembley Park station. A *lot* of black smoke from Met No.1! On looking at my master video file I can see that the emu is 305 513, the Mk2 is 08977*47 (asterisk slightly unclear, probably 5 but might be 3), the Mk1 Brake is 08977588 and L44 is at the rear A compilation film showing steam On The Met trains over several years, plus other ordinary and non-passenger trains at Rickmansworth station OK, data copied from the computer file made when I edited the Chorleywood film. There is some confusion here, in that I describe the Class 305 as a 305/2, when surely it should be 305/5? I must have got the incorrect information from somewhere! Although its not possible read the train numbers from the passing trains I did note the rear destination display showed Tilbury! So this unit must have come from the LTS services out of Fenchurch St Stn. Whilst making this film I recall spending ages searching for information about these former BR coaches, reading Wikipedia pages and other online sources. The locomotives & their wheel arrangements are: Metropolitan Railway E Class No. 1 0-4-4T Great Western Railway pannier tank No. 9466 0-6-0PT London Transport battery locomotive No. L44 The passenger carriages are: British Railways Class 305/2 ac electric multiple unit in Network SouthEast livery, Former British Railways Mk2C First Open (FO) No. 3152, former BR Mk1 Brake Standard Corridor (BSK) (ie: includes a guard's section) No. 35011, - both in a special 'London Underground' livery. re: the 1889 - 1989 Chesham Centenary Steam Train film, This was filmed before I had a camcorder, so it was made using silent super 8 ciné film with added copyright-free music. Below is the train information as seen on-screen: The special train's passenger carriages comprised of (sic) (since writing that text I have learnt that "comprised of" is bad grammar) a British Railways Class 438 electric multiple unit 4TC (trailer control) set in Network SouthEast livery and... ...former British Railways Mark 1 BSK No. 35011 in its new identity as Brake Force Runner No. 977588 and painted in a special London Underground livery. Brake Force Runners are carriages added to short locomotive hauled trains to improve the brake force (so that it slows down faster / in a shorter distance). Apologies for duplicating some of what other people have said here, I hope this helps, and thanks for watching my videos Simon Those are brilliant, thanks Simon! They've cleared up a lot of what I was unsure of about the special Underground livery and the best view I've seen of the Metropolitan Maroon one. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 8, 2020 4:52:50 GMT
On looking at my master video file I can see that the emu is 305 513, the Mk2 is 08977*47 (asterisk slightly unclear, probably 5 but might be 3), the Mk1 Brake is 08977588 Not 08977xxx, but DB 977xxx (DB being the prefix for departmental stock) DB 977547 and DB 977588 were sold by BR to LUL in 1994 so that fits. 305513 was indeed a 305/2 - these units predate the TOPs system, and when new the two subclasses of AM5 were known as AM5/1 and AM5/2, and the individual units were numbered in the next available 3 digit series - 4xx and 5xx respectively. (Each region numbered its AC units in a separate series, each starting at 001, although at the time only the Eastern had more than one class of AC unit*.) Under TOPs the class number was simply added as a prefix to the unit number. *Edit - the London Midland still had the AM1s as well as the AM4s, but only the latter carried unit numbers. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 8, 2020 15:39:54 GMT
for Steam on the Met and District was as follows: I take it the 3TC is just one of the 4TCs with a car removed? Probably so, although three of the TCs were originally 3-car (301 to 303), in order to provide 11-car loco hauled boat trains to the non-quayside at Southampton Docks - 12 plus a loco being too long to fit any platform at Waterloo. In the seven years between introduction in 1967 and augmentation of the fleet in 1974 (four more REPs and three TCs), the Jumbo Jet had killed off much of the boat train traffic so the 3TCs had a fourth car added, becoming units 429 to 431. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 8, 2020 18:40:35 GMT
On looking at my master video file I can see that the emu is 305 513, the Mk2 is 08977*47 (asterisk slightly unclear, probably 5 but might be 3), the Mk1 Brake is 08977588 Not 08977xxx, but DB 977xxx (DB being the prefix for departmental stock) DB 977547 and DB 977588 were sold by BR to LUL in 1994 so that fits. 305513 was indeed a 305/2 - these units predate the TOPs system, and when new the two subclasses of AM5 were known as AM5/1 and AM5/2, and the individual units were numbered in the next available 3 digit series - 4xx and 5xx respectively. (Each region numbered its AC units in a separate series, each starting at 001, although at the time only the Eastern had more than one class of AC unit*.) Under TOPs the class number was simply added as a prefix to the unit number. *Edit - the London Midland still had the AM1s as well as the AM4s, but only the latter carried unit numbers. Thank you for the correction and explanation. Simon |
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Post by pauluni on Jun 8, 2020 20:39:02 GMT
If I remember correctly the coaching stock used for Steam on the Met and District was as follows: Steam on the Met 89 - a unit hired from Network SouthEast & 35011 Steam on the Met 90 - 35011, 3152 & a unit hired from Network SouthEast Steam on the District 90 - 3152 & 35011 Steam on the Met 92 & Steam on the Met 93 (Harrow-Amersham weekend) - 4TC & 3TC Steam on the Met 93 (Watford-Amersham weekend) & Steam on the Met 94 - 1st set: 4TC, 2nd set: 3152 & 3TC Steam on the District 93 - 4TC Steam on the Met 95, 96, 98 & 99 - 1st set: 1 MK2B & 4TC, 2nd set: 2 MK2B & 3TC Steam on the Met 2000 - 1st set: 2 MK2B & 4TC, 2nd set: MK1 TSO & FO hired in, a MK2B & 3TC The two 4TC sets were repainted into Metropolitan Maroon when purchased, 3152 by Steam on the Met 94 and the MK2B carriages by Steam on the Met 96. 35011 was also repainted into Metropolitan Maroon at some point. That's amazingly detailed, thank you. I take it the 3TC is just one of the 4TCs with a car removed? Yep. I remember seeing a youtube video of the 1993 Ruislip Depot open day where you can briefly see the spare TFK between 3152 & 35011. Unfortunately I can't find it now. |
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