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Post by wanstead on Mar 26, 2020 20:10:51 GMT
I've been rereading Underground Movement by Paul Moss recently, and after the introduction the first stock considered is the short-lived 1920 Stock. It mostly muses upon the design and interior of these carriages, however it's thrown up a few questions which the all-knowing Oracle has been unable to answer.
Were these ordered as a supplement to the Gate Stock trains on the Piccadilly? There were only 40 cars ever built and even with the 20 converted Gate Stock motor cars this would still only be enough for ten six-car trains.
How were these trains formed, would it have been some combination of two Gate Stock motors, two 1920 Stock control cars and two 1920 Stock trailers? Were the motor cars placed on the ends, or in the middle of trains?
Finally, how on earth did the designers manage to slip the oval front windows past Frank Pick?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 26, 2020 23:51:48 GMT
Brian Hardy's "Underground Train File" gives some more detail. They were built to handle increased traffic levels on the Picadilly, for use with 1906-vintage motor cars, which were converted from gate to air door operation for the purpose. These trains operated alongside the existing trains of gate stock.
Up to and including the 1923-34 Standard Stock, normal operation on the Tube lines was for motor cars, with their large equipment compartments, to be formed at the ends of trains, so a six car train would be M-T-CT-CT-T-M. However, three-car trains were not unknown.
They were converted in 1928 to work with new standard stock motor cars and, in 1931 they were transferred to the Bakerloo, because they were not considered suitable for extended open-air running on the new extensions to the Piccadilly Line. On the Bakerloo they were only used south of Queen's Park. In 1938 they were earmarked for the Northern City Line but found to be out of gauge (presumably width wise) and withdrawn, some finding non-railway use as ARP shelters during the War.
The oval cab windows were not unique - the F stock on the District Line, introduced the previous year, also had this feature, as did contemporary trains on the Berlin U-Bahn.
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Post by countryman on Mar 27, 2020 8:33:07 GMT
Brian Hardy's "Underground Train File" gives some more detail. They were built to handle increased traffic levels on the Picadilly, for use with 1906-vintage motor cars, which were converted from gate to air door operation for the purpose. These trains operated alongside the existing trains of gate stock. Up to and including the 1923-34 Standard Stock, normal operation on the Tube lines was for motor cars, with their large equipment compartments, to be formed at the ends of trains, so a six car train would be M-T-CT-CT-T-M. However, three-car trains were not unknown. They were converted in 1928 to work with new standard stock motor cars and, in 1931 they were transferred to the Bakerloo, because they were not considered suitable for extended open-air running on the new extensions to the Piccadilly Line. On the Bakerloo they were only used south of Queen's Park. In 1938 they were earmarked for the Northern City Line but found to be out of gauge (presumably width wise) and withdrawn, some finding non-railway use as ARP shelters during the War. The oval cab windows were not unique - the F stock on the District Line, introduced the previous year, also had this feature, as did contemporary trains on the Berlin U-Bahn. If I remember correctly, all F stock cars had oval windows at both ends, a feature which wasn't repeated until later stock was refurbished, (although obviously not oval.) |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 27, 2020 16:14:41 GMT
That’s correct the F stock (also known as 1920 stock) originally had oval windows at each end. The 40 driving motor cars were double ended but the trailing end cab was later removed probably around 1928 when E.P. brakes were fitted.
When air doors were fitted the driving motor cars which were double equipped and usually ran at the extreme ends of the 8 car trains had their oval windows at the trailing ends plated over in order to mount the guards panels for the air doors. As an aside the same was done on the G stock which became Q23.
Back to the tube stock I believe at the time of introduction that middle motor cars were not permitted in tube tunnels (the exception being the 1903 Great Northern and City stock and the 1920 Watford joint stock) so as said a M-T-CT+CT-T-M formation with uncoupling at off-peak times carried out.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 27, 2020 17:01:56 GMT
When air doors were fitted the driving motor cars which were double equipped and usually ran at the extreme ends of the 8 car trains had their oval windows at the trailing ends plated over in order to mount the guards panels for the air doors. . I had to look up what "double-equipped" meant. Originally all F stock motor cars had both bogies (trucks in LER parlance) powered. F stock trains were generally formed DM-T-T-T-M-CT-T-M, (the third car from each end being a composite with some 1st class accommodation: the 5 + 3 split was to allow for different passenger loadings on the branches at the west end of the line). The three DMs in a train had a total of six power bogies. This resulted in the trains being overpowered for the schedules, which had to be designed around the less powerful earlier MDR stock still running on the line. Consequently, fifteen DMs (of the original forty) soon had one set of power equipment removed, becoming "single-equipped" as opposed to the original "double-equipped" condition. The single-equipped cars generally ran in the middle of eight car trains. The redundant power equipment was used to re-equip the MDR's electric locomotives, but in 1940 the same equipment was returned to the F stock, and used to convert the twelve control trailers to single-equipped DMs (and one single equipped DM back to double equipped, so that there were 26 single-equipped and 26 double-equipped - enough with the 48 trailers to make twelve 8-car trains, with four spare motor coaches). It was around the same time that air doors were fitted, resulting in the blocking off of the windows at the inner ends of the double-equipped cars to allow fitting of the guard's controls. After conversion to air door operation, single-equipped cars, not having guard's controls, could only run in the middle of trains. |
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Post by littlejohn on Mar 27, 2020 19:40:19 GMT
There is an F Stock photo caption in Steam to Silver that says ‘The elliptical cab windows were unique to this design of stock’. Presumably it is only talking about surface stock. Rails Through the Clay records that the 1920 stock also had a remarkable internal similarity to the F stock. I recall reading somewhere (typically I cannot remember where) of surprise that the oval windows were perpetuated in the 1920 stock as they had already proved unsuccessful on the F stock due to reduced visibility for the driver. To add to norbitonflyer's answer to wanstead’s original query, Rails Through the Clay confirms that the 1920 stock was built to supplement the original fleet.
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 27, 2020 21:31:01 GMT
If you go the LT Museum website and look at the collections page you can search for photographs.
If you enter 1920 stock you will find some shots of the 1920 and F stock interiors.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 29, 2020 7:41:58 GMT
They were horrible from new, cold and uninviting. The Frank Pick make over was much improved.
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