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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 14, 2019 10:14:30 GMT
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hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
Posts: 516
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Post by hobbayne on Nov 14, 2019 10:40:54 GMT
Its now a car park.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 14, 2019 11:09:18 GMT
Has been ever since I can remember which at earliest is probably around 1968/69. Apparently the goods yard closed in April 1966 so I'd never have spotted it, aged nearly 1, over the side of my pram.
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Post by brigham on Nov 14, 2019 18:22:35 GMT
Goods by rail? Sounds like a good idea. I wonder why nothing ever came of it! [/millennial]
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
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Post by slugabed on Nov 14, 2019 18:31:17 GMT
....Perhaps,to encourage people out of their polluting cars,they could replace the car-parks at each station with a local goods facility? [/lastyearofthebabyboom]
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 14, 2019 22:25:26 GMT
....Perhaps,to encourage people out of their polluting cars,they could replace the car-parks at each station with a local goods facility? [/lastyearofthebabyboom] To be fair, I believe this was the Charringtons coal merchants yard so pollution wasn't top of the agenda.
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Post by stapler on Nov 15, 2019 8:22:32 GMT
BR had a policy of mechanising the coal yards in the suburban area, There was to be one central yard where all the merchants were to take their lorries.The one chosen for NE London was Angel Rd,well situated on the North Circular Road. That suited the big boys, like Charringtons, the Coop, and John Knight. But it put the small coal merchants (like Mason's at Highams Park) out of business.The coal trade was changing anyway, as smokeless fuel took over as the Clean Air Act was brought into force by local authorities over a 10-15 year period. Another revolution was the self-weighing hopper lorry; instead of the coal being sacked up at the depot and loaded onto lorries, it was shot into the hopper lorry and sacked up on the roadside by the customer's house. Some merchants continued to use the old local depots for stacking; eg Charrington's at Loughton. The BR manager who closed the Central Line depots later became a prominent local politician, but I never read in his manifesto that it was he who imposed all those extra lorry movements on the area. Most of the coal yards became car parks; but now TfL seems to have a policy of converting them into residential.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
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Post by roythebus on Nov 21, 2019 10:01:40 GMT
the Clean Air Act if the early 1960s saw the demise of domestic coal traffic in London. all the former BR bits of LT had goods facilities as a left-over from main line days. The district had coal depots at High Street and West Kensington. There's much discussion about those facilities elsewhere on here.
I remember seeing the goods depots on the Central Line in operation when I used to bunk off school and ride round the Underground all day. Col trains on the Central would gain access via Leytonstone from Stratford and in earlier times via the Ilford-Newbury Park connection.
The CL goods trains were worked by Brush Type 2s (class 31) and the other early diesels.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 21, 2019 11:12:45 GMT
the Clean Air Act if the early 1960s saw the demise of domestic coal traffic in London. all the former BR bits of LT had goods facilities as a left-over from main line days. The district had coal depots at High Street and West Kensington. There's much discussion about those facilities elsewhere on here. I remember seeing the goods depots on the Central Line in operation when I used to bunk off school and ride round the Underground all day. Col trains on the Central would gain access via Leytonstone from Stratford and in earlier times via the Ilford-Newbury Park connection. The CL goods trains were worked by Brush Type 2s (class 31) and the other early diesels. Thanks for that info! Very interesting. Is this the type of loco you refer to?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 21, 2019 22:36:16 GMT
Is this the type of loco you refer to? <pic - see above> That's a Brush Type 2, yes. Other types sometimes found were the various Type 1s, later classes 15, 16 and 20.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 22, 2019 7:43:43 GMT
Is this the type of loco you refer to? <pic - see above> That's a Brush Type 2, yes. Other types sometimes found were the various Type 1s, later classes 15, 16 and 20. Do you have any pictures of them at Woodford? I'm sure I saw one once but can't for the life of me remember where.
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Post by grahamhewett on Nov 22, 2019 8:50:01 GMT
the Clean Air Act if the early 1960s saw the demise of domestic coal traffic in London. all the former BR bits of LT had goods facilities as a left-over from main line days. The district had coal depots at High Street and West Kensington. There's much discussion about those facilities elsewhere on here. I remember seeing the goods depots on the Central Line in operation when I used to bunk off school and ride round the Underground all day. Col trains on the Central would gain access via Leytonstone from Stratford and in earlier times via the Ilford-Newbury Park connection. The CL goods trains were worked by Brush Type 2s (class 31) and the other early diesels. On a pedantic point, I suspect the Clean Air Act was 1956, but its effects were felt almost immediately. Pea soupers stopped at once and we suddenly acquired a plethora of - highly dangerous - paraffin stoves for the flat in Ealing where we lived. At the western end of the LU system, house coal traffic to individual depots lingered on with steam traction, especially on the Uxbridge Line, until the early '60s, usually worked by Cricklewood's grimiest.
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Post by countryman on Nov 22, 2019 9:38:17 GMT
the Clean Air Act if the early 1960s saw the demise of domestic coal traffic in London. all the former BR bits of LT had goods facilities as a left-over from main line days. The district had coal depots at High Street and West Kensington. There's much discussion about those facilities elsewhere on here. I remember seeing the goods depots on the Central Line in operation when I used to bunk off school and ride round the Underground all day. Col trains on the Central would gain access via Leytonstone from Stratford and in earlier times via the Ilford-Newbury Park connection. The CL goods trains were worked by Brush Type 2s (class 31) and the other early diesels. On a pedantic point, I suspect the Clean Air Act was 1956, but its effects were felt almost immediately. Pea soupers stopped at once and we suddenly acquired a plethora of - highly dangerous - paraffin stoves for the flat in Ealing where we lived. At the western end of the LU system, house coal traffic to individual depots lingered on with steam traction, especially on the Uxbridge Line, until the early '60s, usually worked by Cricklewood's grimiest. Although there was a vast improvement there were still a couple of smog events. ,Aftermath Smog and its health effects continued to be a problem in London. During the London fog of 2–5 December 1957 smoke and sulphur dioxide concentrations reached levels comparable to 1952 and there were 760–1000 deaths. Another episode in 1962 resulted in 750 deaths.
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Post by grahamhewett on Nov 22, 2019 10:01:24 GMT
countryman - yes, I'm not sure precisely what leeway was given to domestic users to convert. The 1957 smog was certainly comparable with the earlier events - I recall us struggling back to Ealing from Sutton by car (!) at more or less walking pace, relying on the fact that it was a very familiar journey - and at some key junctions, the guidance lighting on the trolleybus OHLE was just about visible. The 1957 event, however, lacked the stench of the typical '50s smog; 1954 or '5 was especially bad when one had to change all one's clothes on getting back indoors..
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 22, 2019 10:12:19 GMT
I remember the 1962 event, as our school choir in East Greenwich was awaiting a decision on if we could travel to Central London for a Christmas carol festival. From memory, it lasted over a week, but cleared two days before the big event.
Disappointingly, our transport to it involved one of those red 2-0-2 things and not rail.
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Post by grahamhewett on Nov 22, 2019 10:59:59 GMT
One of the disappointing things about the consequences of "cleaner air" was that people thought the problem had been solved and forgot for many years afterwards about the impact of particulates and other noxious emissions. This became clear (but was studiedly ignored) when the façade of Westminster Abbey was cleaned for Princess Margaret's wedding - very fine it looked, too, but only for about a decade or so, after which it reverted to its pre-Clean Air Act state. Maybe now....
On a non-London note, When Leeds finally got round to declaring a smokeless zone in the '60s (concessionary coal for miners had much to answer for), some enthusiast decided to start cleaning Leeds Town Hall by sandblasting - the two stone lions on the steps were reduced to albino slugs...
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Post by tjw on Nov 22, 2019 11:46:21 GMT
Although there was a vast improvement there were still a couple of smog events. ,Aftermath Smog and its health effects continued to be a problem in London. During the London fog of 2–5 December 1957 smoke and sulphur dioxide concentrations reached levels comparable to 1952 and there were 760–1000 deaths. Another episode in 1962 resulted in 750 deaths. I thought the main problem was the expansion of Battersea, and the building of Bankside and all the other power stations. I am sure I have seen a scientific paper on the causes of the smogs. Of course for a Smog to form you did need the right weather conditions, Fog and a couple of days of light winds coming up the Thames estuary from the North Sea. This held the polluted air in the Thames basin so it could build up and mix with the fog! Normal the westerly weather patterns we have would blow the pollution out into the North sea and across to Scandinavia to change the chemistry of their lakes!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 22, 2019 11:57:07 GMT
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
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Post by slugabed on Nov 22, 2019 14:04:08 GMT
Graham Hewett writes "On a pedantic point, I suspect the Clean Air Act was 1956, but its effects were felt almost immediately. Pea soupers stopped at once and we suddenly acquired a plethora of - highly dangerous - paraffin stoves for the flat in Ealing where we lived." I cerrtainly remmember those lethal Paraffin stoves,producing a smelly damp fug which had the windows streaming with condensation! I was born in 1964,but can clearly remember public notices about the Clean Air Act zones,and what was allowed and where,and until when which leads me to believe that introduction was phased ovber probably a ten or so year period. In my local area of Battersea,the air didn't really improve dramatically until the local industry died the death in the 1980s. Even today I am impressed as to how relatively clean London's air looks (note: LOOKS) since my childhood.
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Post by stapler on Nov 22, 2019 21:54:05 GMT
Graham Hewett writes "On a pedantic point, I suspect the Clean Air Act was 1956, but its effects were felt almost immediately. Pea soupers stopped at once and we suddenly acquired a plethora of - highly dangerous - paraffin stoves for the flat in Ealing where we lived." I cerrtainly remmember those lethal Paraffin stoves,producing a smelly damp fug which had the windows streaming with condensation! I was born in 1964,but can clearly remember public notices about the Clean Air Act zones,and what was allowed and where,and until when which leads me to believe that introduction was phased ovber probably a ten or so year period. In my local area of Battersea,the air didn't really improve dramatically until the local industry died the death in the 1980s. Even today I am impressed as to how relatively clean London's air looks (note: LOOKS) since my childhood. GH is quite wrong.The 1956 Act was not brought into force immediately. It was brought into force by local councils declaring smokeless zones,which was slow. Some councils were keener than others, but well into the 60s they were not universal.In Chingford it was the early 60s. My dad had to replace conventional grates with all-night burners in order to burn Cleanglow or Coalite smokeless fuel;you could also get a grant for a gas poker so as to avoid using firewood and yesterday's News Chronicle to light the fire. The Tory papers burned better than the Mirror! 1964 and I think 1970 had peasoupers. In the case of my own present house, it was in a smokeless zone delineated by Epping Forest DC as late as 1986; in 1987 they revoked it (see , as it was realised nobody had coal fires any more. So I can still burn coal and wood, and plenty of people in Loughton like wood fires, as 28 lbs of fuel ("driftwood") daily can be had for nothing in the Forest. The revocation order is attached to my deeds.
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Post by brigham on Nov 29, 2019 8:31:49 GMT
Disappointingly, our transport to it involved one of those red 2-0-2 things and not rail. Horse-buses still running in 1962? I thought our Newcastle-Gateshead service was the last in Britain, ending in the '30s.
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Post by grahamhewett on Nov 29, 2019 19:54:20 GMT
stapler - I sit corrected - in W London, where we had no forests, the Act was brought into force very quickly. Your experience is reminiscient of the problems encountered in mining villages where the householders preferred free access to concessionary coal to cleaner air - not that this stopped them from complaining about the pollution. [In the early seventies, I was part of a team carrying out a study of Normanton as part of the newly formed Dept of the Environment's total approach to the Environment. The smog from concessionary coal was everywhere and vigorously complained about but any mention of changing from coal was met with extreme hostility].
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
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Post by roythebus on Nov 29, 2019 21:15:26 GMT
It seems most houses had paraffin stoves. We certainly had them when we moved to a house just off Fulham Palace Road, prior to that in mimosa Street just off Fulham Road we had coal fires and paraffin stoves. Awful things that stank the place out. They seem to have fallen out of use these days.
But yes, the class 31 shown above is the type that would have been seen at Woodford on the coal trains.
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Post by stapler on Nov 29, 2019 22:34:01 GMT
Paraffin stoves (many people of my age will remember the jingle for Esso Blue) were in every house. I believe the Aladdin brand stoves were made in West London,in a rail connected factory somewhere near the new North west line.Someone here may remember it. Aladdinique stoves were quite stable, but some of the drip-feed type were not,and cause horrific fires. Paraffin was about 2/- a gallon;posher folk had it delivered in 5-gallon drums, by the pink paraffin man, but I had to carry it home from Bob's (AKA Chingford Hatch Post Office/builders merchants) and the scent of paraffin, kindling, and sold-loose Brillo pads I can smell to this day!
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 29, 2019 23:02:55 GMT
(many people of my age will remember the jingle for Esso Blue) I have a very distant memory of my dad singing me the "Pink" jingle 1, which is slightly bizarre given that my Grandad (my Father's Father) only sold Esso Blue <dum dum dum dum> 2 in his shop! 1:
A: I've got a cold house. B: Why don't you heat it then? A: My heater's empty. B: Why don't you fill it then? A: I'm out of paraffin. B: Then why don't you ring for pink?2
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
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Post by slugabed on Nov 29, 2019 23:45:42 GMT
Battersea in the late 60s,a tanker lorry used to come around once a week and dispense gallons of Paraffin from a tap at the back. You could also go and fetch it from a hardware type shop...these were going quite a while,I was buying Paraffin by the gallon for use as a degreaser for working on motorbikes well into the nineties. The smell of Paraffin was very pervasive,and it was said that for every gallon of Paraffin burnt,a gallon of water-vapour was given off,leading to immense condensation problems in those pre-double-glazing days.
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Post by stapler on Nov 30, 2019 8:17:15 GMT
There was also Fina green, sold AIRI at Regent garages. Some railway coal yards (eg Loughton) also had large (c 750 gallon) tanks built on brick plinths. I used to wonder if there were for paraffin, and if so, whether distribution to them was by rail, but never found out. Incidentally, ebay has recently had a wagon label for a wagonload consignment from Loughton (goods station) to Nottingham, Boots. Anyone any thoughts as to ehat might have been sent?
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Post by countryman on Nov 30, 2019 8:43:50 GMT
Paraffin stoves (many people of my age will remember the jingle for Esso Blue) were in every house. I believe the Aladdin brand stoves were made in West London,in a rail connected factory somewhere near the new North west line.Someone here may remember it. Aladdinique stoves were quite stable, but some of the drip-feed type were not,and cause horrific fires. Paraffin was about 2/- a gallon;posher folk had it delivered in 5-gallon drums, by the pink paraffin man, but I had to carry it home from Bob's (AKA Chingford Hatch Post Office/builders merchants) and the scent of paraffin, kindling, and sold-loose Brillo pads I can smell to this day! If I remember correctly, the Alladin place was on the A40 Western Avenue between Greenford and Northolt Target roundabouts, were it crosses the Grand Union Canal.
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Post by countryman on Nov 30, 2019 9:02:25 GMT
Battersea in the late 60s,a tanker lorry used to come around once a week and dispense gallons of Paraffin from a tap at the back. You could also go and fetch it from a hardware type shop...these were going quite a while,I was buying Paraffin by the gallon for use as a degreaser for working on motorbikes well into the nineties. The smell of Paraffin was very pervasive,and it was said that for every gallon of Paraffin burnt,a gallon of water-vapour was given off,leading to immense condensation problems in those pre-double-glazing days. With my chemist's hat on, I did a quick calculation. Based on the assumption that the average molecular formula for the hydrocarbons in paraffin is C15H32, and a gallon of paraffin weighs ~3.6kg, burning this would give ~1,3kg of water, quite a long way off the 4.5kg a gallon of water would weigh. Still potentially a problem though. Also note that generally paraffin is now referred to as kerosene, ie jet aircraft fuel. Heathrow stinks of it!
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Post by John Tuthill on Nov 30, 2019 11:20:02 GMT
Paraffin stoves (many people of my age will remember the jingle for Esso Blue) were in every house. I believe the Aladdin brand stoves were made in West London,in a rail connected factory somewhere near the new North west line.Someone here may remember it. Aladdinique stoves were quite stable, but some of the drip-feed type were not,and cause horrific fires. Paraffin was about 2/- a gallon;posher folk had it delivered in 5-gallon drums, by the pink paraffin man, but I had to carry it home from Bob's (AKA Chingford Hatch Post Office/builders merchants) and the scent of paraffin, kindling, and sold-loose Brillo pads I can smell to this day! If I remember correctly, the Alladin place was on the A40 Western Avenue between Greenford and Northolt Target roundabouts, were it crosses the Grand Union Canal. The building is still there, its listed, you can't miss it. Was used by B&Q for a while. Haven't been that way for years,don't know who has it now.
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