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Post by AndrewPSSP on Oct 14, 2019 15:34:03 GMT
I don't know if a thread regarding Ticket Machines going cashless exists (a quick search suggests otherwise) but I received an e-mail from TfL this morning:
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
Posts: 480
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Post by londoner on Oct 14, 2019 16:40:26 GMT
Yup, I got the same message and was going to post the same thing. I think it will now open the floodgates for other stations to do the same. I still regularly top up with cash and lots of other people will to. I'm sure tourists likely prefer to pay with cash too. How are children meant to top up if the majority are not allowed debit or credit cards? Poor decision in my opinion.
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futurix
Formerly Alex F
The cows are not what they seem.
Posts: 75
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Post by futurix on Oct 14, 2019 18:43:24 GMT
Children need to top-up?
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Post by underover on Oct 14, 2019 19:48:58 GMT
Depending on age, they have to pay to use the underground etc, but at a reduced rate.
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Post by Chris L on Oct 14, 2019 20:21:41 GMT
Cash handling must be difficult at Canary Wharf.
Nowhere nearby to park vans to collect the money.
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Post by stapler on Oct 14, 2019 20:45:58 GMT
is it just an urban myth that the note acceptors don't like damp/wet polymer notes?
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Post by superteacher on Oct 15, 2019 4:58:26 GMT
Oyster will no doubt be defunct in a few years with Contactless ruling the roost. But this decision seems a bit premature.
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Post by revupminster on Oct 15, 2019 6:47:00 GMT
Public toilets down my way now take contactless debit cards (25p) and people complained pensioners won't cope but the operator said children were the problem (no cards) so they still take cash at the moment.
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Post by tjw on Oct 15, 2019 7:28:18 GMT
Oyster will no doubt be defunct in a few years with Contactless ruling the roost. But this decision seems a bit premature. I wonder, as Tfl have access to the data as to what payment options are being used. Perhaps cash payments had dropped to such a small percentage that it will only inconvenience a very small minority (who will have a 2min walk).
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Post by stapler on Oct 15, 2019 7:33:10 GMT
Once they solve the issue of loading discounts onto contactless, won't the Oystercard be a thing of the past?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 15, 2019 18:15:11 GMT
I really don't see why this is as controversial as it seems to be. The groups of people who will disproportionately use cash are children, foreign tourists and the very low paid - all of whom (combined) are a very tiny minority of users at Canary Wharf JLE, and almost none of them will have this as their closest station.
I can't imagine that there are any companies at Canary Wharf that pay their cleaners in cash, so even they will have access to debit cards (and wont be living nearer this station than any of the other options, and/or will be walking to/from work), and there are no cheap hotels anywhere on the Canary Wharf estate, so almost everyone staying at them will be either business travellers or paying by card. Lower income tourists/backpackers/similar tourists will not be staying near Canary Wharf and, if they do need to top up before their return/onward journey then there are the other options nearby (see next paragraph).
For those that do want/need to top up using cash, it will still be accepted at Heron Quays DLR (2 minutes walk on a very simple route), Canary Wharf DLR (<5 minutes walk), South Quay DLR (about 10 minutes walk), West India Quay DLR (about 10 minutes walk). It might also be accepted at the Crossrail station when that opens. Then there are two ticket shops on the Canary Wharf estate and at least 7 more within 20 minutes walk.
It's not a convenient location to top up at before getting the bus (the DLR stations or ticket shops are much better situated for this), other than perhaps for people coming from the lower levels of Jubilee Place Mall - and if you're working there or can afford to regularly buy things there then you wont be reliant on cash. If your onward journey is by another transport mode then you will either just top up at your origin station, your destination station or the DLR station instead or be using a mode of transport that doesn't take Oyster cards (walking, coach, taxi) - a possible exception is Thames Clippers, but (a) very few people will do this as it's not a convenient interchange, (b) the route takes you right past Canary Wharf DLR station, and (c) you can pay cash directly.
If you arrive at the station by bus and need to top up before you make your tube journey, then you will just need to get off the bus one stop earlier or later and top up at Canary Wharf DLR station (which all buses currently pass) or Churchill Place Post Office ticket shop. If/when the buses from the Isle of Dogs are rerouted back onto their previous route when the western end of Bank Street reopens then the stop before the Jubilee line station will be Heron Quays DLR.
This certainly wouldn't be acceptable at most stations, but Canary Wharf isn't most stations. I strongly suspect it's got one of, if not the, lowest proportion of people paying cash and you actually have to try very hard to find someone who will be inconvenienced by more than 10 minutes by this (a person can only top up with cash, doesn't know this can't be done at the JLE station before they get to the ticket hall, has to ask how to get to somewhere where they can (I'd be amazed if there wasn't clear signage of this, possibly even at the top of the escalators before you get to the ticket hall) and walks much slower than average). And even then the chances of finding someone who will use their debit/credit card to top up your oyster if you give them the cash will be pretty good.
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Post by roman80 on Oct 15, 2019 19:30:33 GMT
I really don't see why this is as controversial as it seems to be. The groups of people who will disproportionately use cash are children, foreign tourists and the very low paid - all of whom (combined) are a very tiny minority of users at Canary Wharf JLE, and almost none of them will have this as their closest station. I can't imagine that there are any companies at Canary Wharf that pay their cleaners in cash, so even they will have access to debit cards (and wont be living nearer this station than any of the other options, and/or will be walking to/from work), and there are no cheap hotels anywhere on the Canary Wharf estate, so almost everyone staying at them will be either business travellers or paying by card. Lower income tourists/backpackers/similar tourists will not be staying near Canary Wharf and, if they do need to top up before their return/onward journey then there are the other options nearby (see next paragraph). For those that do want/need to top up using cash, it will still be accepted at Heron Quays DLR (2 minutes walk on a very simple route), Canary Wharf DLR (<5 minutes walk), South Quay DLR (about 10 minutes walk), West India Quay DLR (about 10 minutes walk). It might also be accepted at the Crossrail station when that opens. Then there are two ticket shops on the Canary Wharf estate and at least 7 more within 20 minutes walk. It's not a convenient location to top up at before getting the bus (the DLR stations or ticket shops are much better situated for this), other than perhaps for people coming from the lower levels of Jubilee Place Mall - and if you're working there or can afford to regularly buy things there then you wont be reliant on cash. If your onward journey is by another transport mode then you will either just top up at your origin station, your destination station or the DLR station instead or be using a mode of transport that doesn't take Oyster cards (walking, coach, taxi) - a possible exception is Thames Clippers, but (a) very few people will do this as it's not a convenient interchange, (b) the route takes you right past Canary Wharf DLR station, and (c) you can pay cash directly. If you arrive at the station by bus and need to top up before you make your tube journey, then you will just need to get off the bus one stop earlier or later and top up at Canary Wharf DLR station (which all buses currently pass) or Churchill Place Post Office ticket shop. If/when the buses from the Isle of Dogs are rerouted back onto their previous route when the western end of Bank Street reopens then the stop before the Jubilee line station will be Heron Quays DLR. This certainly wouldn't be acceptable at most stations, but Canary Wharf isn't most stations. I strongly suspect it's got one of, if not the, lowest proportion of people paying cash and you actually have to try very hard to find someone who will be inconvenienced by more than 10 minutes by this (a person can only top up with cash, doesn't know this can't be done at the JLE station before they get to the ticket hall, has to ask how to get to somewhere where they can (I'd be amazed if there wasn't clear signage of this, possibly even at the top of the escalators before you get to the ticket hall) and walks much slower than average). And even then the chances of finding someone who will use their debit/credit card to top up your oyster if you give them the cash will be pretty good. Great summary of Canary Wharf Chris. This topic perked my interest also as I’ve been using Canary Wharf since its opening day. At 6pm today I decided to do a quick count of modes of payment at just one entrance gate (main entrance) while waiting for a colleague to arrive. Of 25 or so people through the gate, only two Oysters. Balance of nine or ten phones and rest contactless. It is very atypical of a London station, as you say. Also interesting everyone using a phone had it unlocked before getting to the gate. That is not typical of London overall.
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Oct 15, 2019 19:43:08 GMT
Also interesting everyone using a phone had it unlocked before getting to the gate. That is not typical of London overall. I would have hoped those working in Canary Wharf's financial district were well acquainted with the saying "time is money." At the risk of going off-topic slightly, why is it that people do not think to take their device out before reaching the gate? Personally, I'd feel quite uncomfortable if I had to stand at the gate and fumble around for my phone. This is a problem even with the Oyster/Contactless card. I wonder how this affects the actual rate of entry and exits, as in the reduction of the amount of people per hour who touch in/out (overall across the network - it can't be that much) due to having to wait for people to get their cards out.
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Post by peterc on Oct 16, 2019 17:02:16 GMT
I know that, in many ways, Canary Wharf is a special case but my first reaction was that the whole point of a ticket machine was to cater for people who couldn't use Oyster or contactless.
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Post by roman80 on Oct 16, 2019 17:33:51 GMT
PA announcements this evening saying it is a trial. No mention of an end date.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 16, 2019 18:13:03 GMT
I know that, in many ways, Canary Wharf is a special case but my first reaction was that the whole point of a ticket machine was to cater for people who couldn't use Oyster or contactless. Ticket machines are used to top-up oysters, to add discounts, to check journey history and probably other things in addition to selling paper tickets. All value-addition is possible using cards.
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