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Post by jimbo on Sept 23, 2019 19:15:11 GMT
My avatar reminds me of one of the great experiences of my life, driving 1938 tube stock in the Bakerloo tunnels in the 1970s as a GEM (guard emergency motorman). With no headlights, only tungsten marker lights, there were only occasional signal lights in the darkness as you rattled along only inches from the tunnel lining. There was a feeling of flying, or floating along with the bogie further back, so you seemed to almost hit the wall on curves before the train began to turn. Only a yellow glow from the passenger saloon reflecting on the iron segments gave a peripheral frame to the darkness ahead. Driving on the Met and Circle never had this feeling. I believe the Museum train now has headlights, so this experience is gone for ever.
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Post by goldenarrow on Sept 24, 2019 11:38:29 GMT
I can say this now that the individual has retired. A Bakerloo T’Op I befriended during my work experience days used to drive with the headlights off (he called it night watch mode) save for station approaches all day on a Sunday. I think like yourself jimbo , he was a guard who then progressed up in the last months of the 38 stock in regular service. I was in the cab on his last few Sunday turns and for me it was all the more surreal, you really appreciate just how bright those signal lenses are and how far they carry.
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Post by brigham on Sept 25, 2019 7:59:33 GMT
What is the purpose of carrying headlights? (I'm talking about lamps that light the road ahead, here). Surely they cause mental fatigue, and make signals less visible?
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Sept 25, 2019 8:14:05 GMT
What is the purpose of carrying headlights? (I'm talking about lamps that light the road ahead, here). Surely they cause mental fatigue, and make signals less visible? To warn people on or about the line of the approach of the train
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 25, 2019 8:19:16 GMT
What is the purpose of carrying headlights? (I'm talking about lamps that light the road ahead, here). Surely they cause mental fatigue, and make signals less visible? To warn people on or about the line of the approach of the train Also most lineside signage is now reflective rather than internally or externally illuminated
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Post by tjw on Sept 25, 2019 12:28:27 GMT
Trains used to have marker lights (usually oil) they would warn you of the approach of a train, and depending on the Railway and the date would either tell you what route it was travelling (LB&SCR etc.) or tell you the type of train i.e. Light engine, express etc. These original lights did not illuminate the track, signs etc. But this was not a big problem when you had a large kettle to keep warm, that largely blocked the view of the way ahead! Also with most trains by the time you see something you have already passed the minimum braking distance.
Modern trains have for sometime had headlamps, they are very useful if you want to see what you are about to hit. They are of course mainly used for seeing the modern reflective signs, the old oil or battery lamp ones had a habit of going out. Also if you believe the tutors on track safety courses they also allow the driver to see you and warn you of a trains approach when you are working track side.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 25, 2019 20:16:49 GMT
Also if you believe the tutors on track safety courses they also allow the driver to see you and warn you of a trains approach when you are working track side. As trackworker Hi-vis now contains reflective stripes, bright headlights are needed in order to create a visible reflection.
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Post by tjw on Sept 25, 2019 20:26:27 GMT
As trackworker Hi-vis now contains reflective stripes, bright headlights are needed in order to create a visible reflection. I pointed out to staff on a preserved railway a few years ago that the oil lamps on the buffer beam don't give enough light to reflect off those stripes. Also the stripes on older Hi-vis become less reflective as they get older, I am unsure if it is U.V. light or washing powders that degrade / wash out the reflective chemicals. I also remind staff that if they are relying on a driver seeing them and giving a warning they have made a potentially fatal mistake.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 25, 2019 22:17:53 GMT
As trackworker Hi-vis now contains reflective stripes, bright headlights are needed in order to create a visible reflection. I pointed out to staff on a preserved railway a few years ago that the oil lamps on the buffer beam don't give enough light to reflect off those stripes. Also the stripes on older Hi-vis become less reflective as they get older, I am unsure if it is U.V. light or washing powders that degrade / wash out the reflective chemicals. I also remind staff that if they are relying on a driver seeing them and giving a warning they have made a potentially fatal mistake. I'm not questioning the validity of your point, however Heritage Railways are very much a niche - operating under their own safety management systems; I was thinking about LU and/or National Rail within the remit of this forum.
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Post by brigham on Sept 26, 2019 7:55:43 GMT
I don't believe that there is any purpose served in illuminating the road ahead in tube tunnels. It brings the tunnel segments into view, causing fatigue, and distracts from the visibility of signals. I suppose it could allow a driver better to see a defective, unlit signal, although the advantage of that, (Ooh! I wonder if it's red or green?) seems minimal. It would be interesting to do some research on the subject.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 26, 2019 10:41:37 GMT
I suppose it could allow a driver better to see a defective, unlit signal, although the advantage of that, (Ooh! I wonder if it's red or green?) seems minimal. If a signal is showing anything other than a clear, single aspect then it must be treated as if it were showing the most restrictive aspect it can show. For a repeater than means yellow for (almost?) any other signal that means red.
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Post by jimbo on Sept 26, 2019 11:25:18 GMT
Headlights were first on Victoria line trains, where there were almost no light signals, so automatic train operator pressed start buttons and train rushed off through the tube tunnel to the next station if all was clear. It was feared such movement through near darkness would risk disorientating train staff. Later train deliveries had headlights ready for eventual conversion to automatic, although this never happened until the Central line.
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Post by pgb on Sept 29, 2019 7:26:47 GMT
As trackworker Hi-vis now contains reflective stripes, bright headlights are needed in order to create a visible reflection. I pointed out to staff on a preserved railway a few years ago that the oil lamps on the buffer beam don't give enough light to reflect off those stripes. They also don't give enough light to see a cow stood in the middle of the track either....
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Post by ted672 on Oct 3, 2019 18:51:21 GMT
Going back to the opening post, I too have memories of cab rides in 1938 stock, but not as a driver. While spending time as a Traffic Admin Trainee in the Station Development Section at 55 Broadway during 1976, I was provided with a cab pass for some of the projects I was tasked with. As '38 stock was my favourite from early childhood I didn't pass up the opportunity to travel up front. It was indeed a surreal experience and I soon learned that motormen were exceptionally skilled in knowing the road and where they may encounter problems. They seemed to hurtle along in full parallel relying only on knowledge and good eyesight to avoid being caught out. In this way I covered the Bakerloo and Northern lines,but not the Kennington loop with its ripe aroma. Great days indeed.
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