|
|
Post by flippyff on Sept 4, 2019 6:32:43 GMT
Northern Line: No service due to a signalling system failure. Tickets are being accepted on Southeastern, South Western Railway, Thameslink, London Trams and London Buses.
From TfL.gov.uk
|
|
|
|
Post by ijmad on Sept 4, 2019 9:39:12 GMT
Must be a fairly serious fail. I'd assume in the control room, but surely they have spares for a lot of the kit?
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Sept 4, 2019 9:53:21 GMT
Just because spares exist doesn't mean that every part is hot-swappable.
Another option of course is that there was a (potential) wrong-side failure the cause and/or resolution of which was either not immediately obvious and/or which could not be implemented on the live railway.
Note I have no knowledge of what has actually occurred - these are simply examples of situations that could lead to a full line suspension.
|
|
|
|
Post by trt on Sept 4, 2019 15:49:48 GMT
I saw a notice somewhere that it was a supply failure in the Highgate area... which is where the control room is now. Be interesting to find out the definitive cause of this. It was very disruptive.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Sept 4, 2019 16:08:20 GMT
I've seen speculation (I've no idea how reliable) that it was a combination of a power failure to the control room and the generator backup not working (or some key piece of equipment not being plugged into it).
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Sept 5, 2019 6:47:28 GMT
An offline battery inverter in the signalling equipment room exploded, so in other words the back up took out the main event.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Sept 5, 2019 9:16:27 GMT
That's not an event you can reasonably plan for!
|
|
|
|
Post by trt on Sept 5, 2019 9:17:34 GMT
Quite. Not something that's supposed to happen!
|
|
|
|
Post by 35b on Sept 5, 2019 9:56:17 GMT
That's not an event you can reasonably plan for! In itself, no - but this reminds me of a time when a network was brought down despite having redundant connections. Why? Because the circuit diagram showed redundancy but both links came through the same manhole cover - and were severed by the same pneumatic drill... I'm no technician, but having the converter in the signalling equipment room feels like tempting fate. |
|
|
|
Post by trt on Sept 5, 2019 10:05:58 GMT
THE convertor, or A convertor? I mean, I've got a few of them in my server room... not the best place for them? But easy to retrofit to something that needs independent operation from, say, a room based UPS, as I have in the laboratory suite.
|
|
|
|
Post by ijmad on Sept 5, 2019 10:07:41 GMT
If that's what happened I'm impressed they got the line up and running again so quickly!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 10:23:42 GMT
I don’t know the set up for TBTC but the system being installed for CBTC will happily run it for 8 hours well so they claim
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Sept 5, 2019 10:29:18 GMT
I'm no technician, but having the converter in the signalling equipment room feels like tempting fate. Unless you have every piece of equipment in its own blast-proof room, there will always be the chance that something will explode and take out something on the critical path. There comes a point when you just have to accept that the cost of protecting against 1 in multi-decade events is too great. |
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Sept 5, 2019 11:52:43 GMT
When Jubilee & Northern resignalling was being planned there was the idea of Neasden & Highgate providing backup control for each other. I guess that was part of economy savings.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Sept 5, 2019 13:47:15 GMT
If that's what happened I'm impressed they got the line up and running again so quickly! There’s no if - that’s exactly what happened. My source was the Northern line service manager’s report; I only post stuff like this from proper confirmed sources. When Jubilee & Northern resignalling was being planned there was the idea of Neasden & Highgate providing backup control for each other. I guess that was part of economy savings. Highgate has its own back up location which was used yesterday. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 15:11:33 GMT
Wouldn’t have to be the old control room by any chance ?
|
|
|
|
Post by piccboy on Sept 5, 2019 21:01:14 GMT
Wouldn’t have to be the old control room by any chance ? Wasn't the old control room building demolished to make way for the new platforms for HS2 at Euston? |
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196 
|
Post by Tom on Sept 5, 2019 21:08:14 GMT
The old Northern Line Control Centre is still standing. It's one of the last (if not the last) of the buildings which has to be demolished for HS2.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196
|
Post by Tom on Sept 5, 2019 21:09:31 GMT
When Jubilee & Northern resignalling was being planned there was the idea of Neasden & Highgate providing backup control for each other. I guess that was part of economy savings. Highgate has its own back up location which was used yesterday. My understanding is that they can back each other up, but I don't know if it's ever been done in anger. |
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Sept 5, 2019 21:14:03 GMT
The old Northern Line Control Centre is still standing. It's one of the last (if not the last) of the buildings which has to be demolished for HS2. And there was a certain prominent railway enthusiast assuring me Cobourg was not going to get demolished... |
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Sept 6, 2019 0:17:30 GMT
The old Northern Line Control Centre is still standing. It's one of the last (if not the last) of the buildings which has to be demolished for HS2. And there was a certain prominent railway enthusiast assuring me Cobourg was not going to get demolished... I presume there is a shaft to the tube lines which will need to be maintained in some way. |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Sept 6, 2019 0:24:09 GMT
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Sept 6, 2019 7:49:58 GMT
Wouldn’t have to be the old control room by any chance ? As others have said already, no, it's not Cobourg Street. And it's not Neasden either. It is stated in the service manager's report which I'm sure you can access @aetearlscourt as its freely available to view on the intranet. I'm rest day today so can't go and check.......it's not far from Highgate AFAIR. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 8:13:48 GMT
Yes your right I can access the report just haven’t looked at it
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 6, 2019 9:11:56 GMT
Wouldn’t have to be the old control room by any chance ? As others have said already, no, it's not Cobourg Street. And it's not Neasden either. It is stated in the service manager's report which I'm sure you can access @aetearlscourt as its freely available to view on the intranet. I'm rest day today so can't go and check.......it's not far from Highgate AFAIR. Yes your right I can access the report just haven’t looked at it High Barnet. |
|
|
|
Post by londonstuff on Sept 6, 2019 9:36:12 GMT
Can I gently point out that in general we try to be very careful with information about the locations of signalling centres and other critical equipment, for obvious reasons.
I'm not suggesting anyone has said anything untoward but I don't think we should add any more specific information in this board.
Thanks all.
|
|
|
|
Post by countryman on Sept 6, 2019 10:28:23 GMT
I'm no technician, but having the converter in the signalling equipment room feels like tempting fate. Unless you have every piece of equipment in its own blast-proof room, there will always be the chance that something will explode and take out something on the critical path. There comes a point when you just have to accept that the cost of protecting against 1 in multi-decade events is too great. This is known as BATNEEC. Best available technology not entailing excessive cost. |
|
|
|
Post by ijmad on Sept 6, 2019 15:25:16 GMT
Unless you have every piece of equipment in its own blast-proof room, there will always be the chance that something will explode and take out something on the critical path. There comes a point when you just have to accept that the cost of protecting against 1 in multi-decade events is too great. This is known as BATNEEC. Best available technology not entailing excessive cost. We do the same in software projects. E.g. there's no point in excessively defending your website about beekeeping against North Korean hackers because you're not going to be a target. |
|
