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Post by metrailway on Aug 25, 2019 13:17:10 GMT
Does anyone know when was the last time BR/NR units ran on the Watford branch, excluding Steam on the Met events? I know the last regular 'mainline' services were withdrawn by the LNER in 1926 after the General Strike, but have there been any workings since? This question has been prompted by the this weekend's railtour from Marylebone to Quainton Road which includes a very unusual working by a Class 33 (which I believe is not tripcock fitted) via Watford (Met). |
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 25, 2019 13:41:43 GMT
The class 33 is tripcock fitted; it was fitted ahead of a railtour on 29/04/2018 from Marylebone to Quainton Road. This weekend’s tours are a repeat of that, with an additional trip to Watford each day. flic.kr/p/25jtU8pNo trains are permitted to operate over the Metropolitan line, in traffic hours, without tripcocks fitted. The only exception to this is Chiltern class 172 units which must be buried between other units with tripcocks at both ends. |
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Post by metrailway on Aug 25, 2019 14:05:29 GMT
The class 33 is tripcock fitted; it was fitted ahead of a railtour on 29/04/2018 from Marylebone to Quainton Road. This weekend’s tours are a repeat of that, with an additional trip to Watford each day. flic.kr/p/25jtU8pNo trains are permitted to operate over the Metropolitan line, in traffic hours, without tripcocks fitted. The only exception to this is Chiltern class 172 units which must be buried between other units with tripcocks at both ends. Thanks, I wasn't aware that D6515 was tripcock fitted as I couldn't see one. Presumably the LUL Senior Operating Officer still has the right to waive this requirement? Mod edit: Posts relating to rule book waivers have been moved here. |
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Post by grahamhewett on Aug 25, 2019 14:31:47 GMT
c1992,the NSE Planning Department and the CrossRail team of the day paid a visit to the Met with a cl47 and one of the engineering saloons. I'm pretty sure that we had no tripcock, only an LU Inspector for the section beyond HotH. It got quite crowded in the cab... There was a certain amount of, shall we say, joshing in the cab, as in "Dave, I don't think the LU signalling can see us" and "There's an A60 right behind you, can you go a bit faster?". We didn't go to Watford but, naturally, to Aylesbury. The trip ended back at OOC, where the MOMI arranged for a stopper to call and pick us all up. Couldn't do it now. Alas, I have no pictures
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Post by mcmaddog on Aug 25, 2019 21:01:36 GMT
I'm sure I recall someone mentioning an incident where a southbound Pullman took the wrong stick at Rickmansworth and it ended up stopping and reversing at Watford. No idea however if that was before or after your cutoff year.
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Post by dm1 on Aug 25, 2019 21:04:29 GMT
The class 33 is tripcock fitted; it was fitted ahead of a railtour on 29/04/2018 from Marylebone to Quainton Road. This weekend’s tours are a repeat of that, with an additional trip to Watford each day. flic.kr/p/25jtU8pNo trains are permitted to operate over the Metropolitan line, in traffic hours, without tripcocks fitted. The only exception to this is Chiltern class 172 units which must be buried between other units with tripcocks at both ends. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I've seen a 172 on the met heading towards Marylebone with only a 165 at the front (so a tripcock only at one end rather than both). Aside from the fact that it can't go back the way it came, that shouldn't pose a problem should it? |
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 25, 2019 21:06:37 GMT
If we take the question at face value (and granted I’m being a little facetious) then class 20s have regularly been seen at Watford over the last almost ten years on turning trips in conjunction with S stock delivery moves. I don’t recall exactly when one of these last happened but believe it was sometime last year.
Admittedly, as I say, I know that’s not quite what is being asked!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 25, 2019 21:19:33 GMT
I'm sure I recall someone mentioning an incident where a southbound Pullman took the wrong stick at Rickmansworth and it ended up stopping and reversing at Watford. No idea however if that was before or after your cutoff year. It was, reputedly, The Master Cutler (a postwar name) hauled by an "A3" Pacific. But no accounts I have read give any dates. |
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Post by metrailway on Aug 26, 2019 17:06:42 GMT
I've done some further online research and apparently in 1986 the Hastings DEMU farewell railtour ran to Watford (Met) as well as Stanmore and Finchley Road! There some interesting pictures of the tour at Watford, Moor Park, Cannons Park and Stanmore: Six Bells Junction linkPreserved Thumpers link
c1992,the NSE Planning Department and the CrossRail team of the day paid a visit to the Met with a cl47 and one of the engineering saloons. I'm pretty sure that we had no tripcock, only an LU Inspector for the section beyond HotH. It got quite crowded in the cab... There was a certain amount of, shall we say, joshing in the cab, as in "Dave, I don't think the LU signalling can see us" and "There's an A60 right behind you, can you go a bit faster?". We didn't go to Watford but, naturally, to Aylesbury. The trip ended back at OOC, where the MOMI arranged for a stopper to call and pick us all up. Couldn't do it now. Alas, I have no pictures My understanding is that prior to the 2000s, it appears that LU were less strict on BR trains operating without tripcocks on the Met. The Class 115s which were the mainstay for Marylebone - Aylesbury services for 30+ years were not tripcock fitted. |
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Post by jimbo on Aug 26, 2019 20:29:42 GMT
I'm sure I recall someone mentioning an incident where a southbound Pullman took the wrong stick at Rickmansworth and it ended up stopping and reversing at Watford. No idea however if that was before or after your cutoff year. It was, reputedly, The Master Cutler (a postwar name) hauled by an "A3" Pacific. But no accounts I have read give any dates. I heard this I believe from the Divisional Inspector who attended to set the train back on the main line. As I understood, it was northbound and emergency braked on taking the wrong turn so didn't get far. Post War, and probably the 1950s, long before the four tracking. |
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Post by jacko1 on Dec 13, 2019 16:46:37 GMT
The class 33 is tripcock fitted; it was fitted ahead of a railtour on 29/04/2018 from Marylebone to Quainton Road. This weekend’s tours are a repeat of that, with an additional trip to Watford each day. flic.kr/p/25jtU8pNo trains are permitted to operate over the Metropolitan line, in traffic hours, without tripcocks fitted. The only exception to this is Chiltern class 172 units which must be buried between other units with tripcocks at both ends. We used to deliver the refurbished A60s with mainline freight class 37s without trip cocks. I understood that apart from the LUL conductor, we had to be double manned. |
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Post by peterc on Dec 13, 2019 16:55:49 GMT
The class 33 is tripcock fitted; it was fitted ahead of a railtour on 29/04/2018 from Marylebone to Quainton Road. This weekend’s tours are a repeat of that, with an additional trip to Watford each day. flic.kr/p/25jtU8pNo trains are permitted to operate over the Metropolitan line, in traffic hours, without tripcocks fitted. The only exception to this is Chiltern class 172 units which must be buried between other units with tripcocks at both ends. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I've seen a 172 on the met heading towards Marylebone with only a 165 at the front (so a tripcock only at one end rather than both). Aside from the fact that it can't go back the way it came, that shouldn't pose a problem should it? I have certainly read elsewhere that the lead unit needs to be tripcock fitted. |
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 16, 2019 0:13:23 GMT
AWS would be better, it would solve this issue. The only downside is that whilst mainline trains have AWS, Sarah Siddons and the 1938 tube stock do not.
by the way, I think AWS stands for 'automatic warning system'. But I might be wrong.
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Post by MoreToJack on Dec 16, 2019 1:05:59 GMT
AWS would not be better. AWS (which does indeed stand for Automatic Warning System) is exactly that: a warning system. Tripcocks and trainstops are a protection system - i.e. they will physically stop a train if it goes past a red signal; AWS will only warn of such.
On the majority of the national rail network, TPWS (Train Protection and Warning System) carries out this function, but was only mandated in the 1990s. It is not as comprehensive as a tripcock/trainstop system with further limitations. New installations are now also limited in favour of modern systems such as ATP (Automatic Train Protection) or ERTMS/ETCS (European Rail Traffic Management System/European Train Control System) which are much more closely 'baked' into on-train systems.
Never mind the heritage fleet not having AWS, neither does the majority passenger fleet operating on the Metropolitan line... which will therefore always dictate what systems are used.
Please, for once, can we stop trying to pretend everything was better in 1952: it wasn't.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 16, 2019 8:00:28 GMT
AWS can stop a train. The brakes are applied unless the driver takes action to over-ride ("acknowledge") the warning given by the hooter if the train approaches a signal at "caution" or "stop". However, the system is not failsafe, as drivers may acknowledge the hooter but fail to take the appropriate action.
Things were definitely not better in 1952. Although the GWR had introduced a similar system (ATC - "automatic train control") before the First World War, AWS was not introduced on the rest of British Railways until after the disasters at Harrow & Wealdstone, and at Lewisham, in 1952 and 1957.
Notwithstanding the different names, ATC and AWS both worked on the same principle: only the method of actuation was different: ATC was electro-mechanical, AWS uses magnetic induction.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,255
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Post by roythebus on Dec 17, 2019 23:47:03 GMT
The ruling on BR locos on the Met (and other LT lines) was that if they were not trip cock fitted, they had to be double manned, apart from any route conductor required.
That wasn't a problem on steam as they had to have 2 men anyway.
Test Coach Iris has been on the Watford branch (the former Derby lightweight test train).
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Post by d7666 on Dec 19, 2019 15:33:09 GMT
The ruling on BR locos on the Met (and other LT lines) was that if they were not trip cock fitted, they had to be double manned, apart from any route conductor required. Speaking as one who was involved with the SEG charter of the DEMU that went to Stanmore and Watford, the "ruling" was .... BR locos on the Met (and other LT lines) was that if they were not trip cock fitted, they had to be double manned WITH PERSONS CONVERSANT WITH GENERAL WORKING OVER LU ROUTES, apart from any route conductor required. That might seem a pedantic point, but you try and find DEMU drivers so conversant. |
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