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Post by toby on Aug 13, 2019 13:15:29 GMT
From another thread:
I recall that a long while back there was some suggestion that the former Silvertown station site could be renovated and linked to London City Airport. It seems an opportunity missed if they don't make use of the current opening delay to at least put in place the trackside infrastructure now whilst the line is not active. I am most definitely not suggesting that Crossrail diverts staff actively working on finishing the current project - but presumably there are now an enormous number of planning and construction people, and importantly equipment now going spare. I feel sure that if (or more probably when) someone in City Hall finally figures out this was a crass oversight, they will have no option but to announce Crossrail will be subject to many months of regular closures (or is it more accurate possessions) just to allow the addition of a station to serve City Airport which could have been largely avoided IF they had utilised the current delayed opening debacle.
Crossrail+sponsors weren't looking to spend more money and launch a new two year subproject at that time. Maybe when City Airport is bigger they'll pay enough to make the benefit-cost ratio better. |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 13, 2019 19:34:07 GMT
Crossrail+sponsors weren't looking to spend more money and launch a new two year subproject at that time. Maybe when City Airport is bigger they'll pay enough to make the benefit-cost ratio better. But providing a station would enable the airport to grow. But we don’t seem to think like that in the U.K. We build thousands of houses, then think about the transport afterwards. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Aug 13, 2019 20:37:50 GMT
Crossrail+sponsors weren't looking to spend more money and launch a new two year subproject at that time. Maybe when City Airport is bigger they'll pay enough to make the benefit-cost ratio better. But providing a station would enable the airport to grow. But we don’t seem to think like that in the U.K. We build thousands of houses, then think about the transport afterwards. Unlike the Metropolitan Rialway which built the railway, bought up the land either side and created 'Metroland'  |
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 13, 2019 21:50:49 GMT
Crossrail+sponsors weren't looking to spend more money and launch a new two year subproject at that time. Maybe when City Airport is bigger they'll pay enough to make the benefit-cost ratio better. But providing a station would enable the airport to grow. But we don’t seem to think like that in the U.K. We build thousands of houses, then think about the transport afterwards. Why does the airport need to grow? Aren't we supposed to be reducing CO2 emissions? |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 13, 2019 22:15:32 GMT
But providing a station would enable the airport to grow. But we don’t seem to think like that in the U.K. We build thousands of houses, then think about the transport afterwards. Why does the airport need to grow? Aren't we supposed to be reducing CO2 emissions? I was thinking purely in terms of economic benefit to London. Really don’t want to get embroiled in a discussion about environmental issues here (important though they are). |
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Post by 35b on Aug 15, 2019 6:36:59 GMT
Crossrail+sponsors weren't looking to spend more money and launch a new two year subproject at that time. Maybe when City Airport is bigger they'll pay enough to make the benefit-cost ratio better. But providing a station would enable the airport to grow. But we don’t seem to think like that in the U.K. We build thousands of houses, then think about the transport afterwards. Is there much scope for growth at LCY? Being purely practical, it has a restricted single runway and the terminal building is already heaving. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 15, 2019 6:47:58 GMT
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Post by Chris L on Aug 15, 2019 11:28:40 GMT
The terminal buildings are being extended at the moment. |
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Post by 35b on Aug 15, 2019 14:18:12 GMT
Enough said
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 15, 2019 15:22:17 GMT
Is the existing DLR station not able to cope?
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futurix
Formerly Alex F
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Post by futurix on Aug 15, 2019 22:18:12 GMT
I don't think capacity of DLR is an issue here: Considering that: - Crossrail doesn't have an easy interchange with DLR trains going to the airport
- Crossrail goes directly to Heathrow and DLR doesn't
- Crossrail passes on the surface painfully close to the airport
it just feels like a major missed opportunity. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Aug 16, 2019 9:22:35 GMT
+1 = Opportunity Missed
Passenger numbers at London City have been rising steadily and DLR City Airport services are already pretty full at times.
The planned new DLR trains arriving in 2023 will help a bit, but by then will struggle to handle continuing growth at the airport (last year up 6.4%). So by 2025 we could easily see another million plus passengers using the airport which will make trying to board the DLR at City Airport decidedly cosy.
Further ahead the Government's "Future Plan for Air Transport" analysis suggests City Airport could reach 8 million passengers by 2030.
Those are surely large enough passenger flows to make the case for a station on Crossrail, rather than even more multi-storey car parks and more taxis.
The delay to Crossrail provides a brief window when minimal trackside enabling could be put in place without impact on passenger services, so that if or when they realise they need a City Airport Station, it can be safely installed without impacting the running railway.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 16:49:45 GMT
Canary Wharf group got their cheque book out and made a major contribution to Crossrail - there's a station at Canary Wharf
The property developer at Woolwich Arsenal got their cheque book out and made a major contribution to Crossrail - there's a station at Woolwich
The owners of City airport refused to open their wallet - so surprise surprise, no station
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 16:57:52 GMT
I'd also argue that what looks like an obvious business case..... actually isn't.
City airport already has the highest public transport modal share of any UK airport. More than two thirds of LCY users come by DLR. These are high spending passengers (no bucket and spade flights), but regular customers want speed and realise that the DLR is already the quickest option. DLR might get crowded now, but will have loads of capacity once Crossrail is open (Woolwich users won't need to switch to the DLR to get to the City or Canary Wharf).
As two thirds of users are already putting money into tfl coffers (DLR account), adding a Crossrail station would cost a lot of capital spend but would not bring in much extra revenue and just revenue into a different bucket (Crossrail account)
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Post by londonstuff on Aug 16, 2019 18:27:31 GMT
Canary Wharf group got their cheque book out and made a major contribution to Crossrail - there's a station at Canary Wharf The property developer at Woolwich Arsenal got their cheque book out and made a major contribution to Crossrail - there's a station at Woolwich The owners of City airport refused to open their wallet - so surprise surprise, no station The same with the DLR extension, if it ever happens. Of course it’s reporting and who knows what goes on behind closed doors but it seems that if you want it built, you pay for it. www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/19/the-dlr-could-be-extended-from-bank-to-euston/I think the group who have Battersea Power Station have paid loads* towards the Northern extension there and I heard way back when that the developers had basically paid for Imperial Wharf station on the Overground. * Highly accurate amount |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 16, 2019 19:39:03 GMT
Crossrail doesn't have an easy interchange with DLR trains going to the airport Stratford? Crossrail goes directly to Heathrow and DLR doesn't The number of people wanting to transfer between one airport and another is tiny. And, like those changing planes in the same airport, make little or no contribution to London's economy. (just a lot of noise and pollution) |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 16, 2019 21:52:58 GMT
Crossrail doesn't have an easy interchange with DLR trains going to the airport Stratford? Yes, but that's not exactly direct. Changing in zone 1 or a Whitechapel is going to be significantly quicker, or at Woolwich Arsenal from the other direction. Even if a Crossrail station is built at the airport it will be 300m as the crow flies between it and the DLR, likely a minimum of 400m walking route along residential streets (assuming it's built approximately on the site of the old Silvertown station, where there is passive provision AIUI) so it's still not going to be an attractive interchange. More useful to the transport network as a whole would be for a westward extension of the DLR in the city to interchange with Crossrail - presumably via some sort of link from Crossrail at TCR to the DLR at Holborn (assuming the 2011 proposal's routing mentioned in the IanVisits link above is chosen). |
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