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Post by pauluni on Aug 2, 2019 21:16:49 GMT
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class411
Operations: Normal
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Post by class411 on Aug 3, 2019 9:59:46 GMT
It says that the train will be pulled by SS {Sarah Siddons} and another loco. How does that work with something like SS, that was presumably never designed to work 'in tandem'?
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 3, 2019 10:17:45 GMT
Previously they have been 'top & tail', that is one loco at each end. They were individually operated with the crews having a radio link such that the leading driver could request assistance in the rear if necessary.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 3, 2019 12:42:23 GMT
As I understand it, there are three ways of operating two or more locomotives in the same train. Simplest is for only one of them to be actually powering the train, the other either being "dead", or with the engine running but not powering the wheels. That is how top and tailing is usually done, the engine at the rear being there for a number of reasons: as a backup; to allow the train to run in both directions; to provide heating aircon etc when the lead loco is not capable of doing so. The rear loco will, of course, be connected to the continuous brake working throughout the train. "Tandem" operation is used when both locos are under power and driven separately, but the brakes for the whole train, including the second loco, are under the control of the driver in the lead loco. "Multiple" operation is when the second loco is completely under the control of the driver in the lead one, and is essentially the same system as for a "multiple unit" train.
I would expect that Sarah and a class 20 could be operated in tandem, but because of the need to reverse, top and tail is preferred.
By the way, can the electric heating in the TC set be powered by Sarah Siddons? (Class 20s never had train heating fitted). What heating was provided in Metropolitan Railway loco hauled trains in the steam/electric era (up to 1960)
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 3, 2019 13:43:47 GMT
Sarah has operated in push-pull with the TC, but not for many years. I don’t know if Sarah retains the ability to do so; the multiple working on the TC was officially out of use until being revived for use at the Swanage railway a few years ago.
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class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
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Post by class411 on Aug 3, 2019 16:24:45 GMT
Are these 4TC coaches the ones that were used on the, I think it was, Bournemouth line, powered by a 4REP {Expansion Unknown} unit?
Back when these were extant we had a few vaguely 'rail enthusiast' types in the office, and we believed thet:
4CEP -> Corridor Electropneumatic Braked. 4VEP -> Vestibule Electropneumatic Braked. 4EPB -> Electro-Pneumatic Braked. 4TC -> Trailer Car.
I did suggest that since a 4REP pulled itself and 8 coaches worth of 4TC, perhaps REP stood for 'Really Exceptionally Powerful'. That idea never gained traction (sorry), but I would love to have experienced a 4REP operating by itself as the acceleration should have been pretty good.
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
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Post by slugabed on Aug 3, 2019 19:54:25 GMT
"TC" = Trailer Control
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Post by ducatisti on Aug 3, 2019 20:59:41 GMT
"Costumed characters" - personally, i am not a fan. Not sure others are either. One 38 stock run had the stewards really having to persuade anyone to come and take pictures of the be-costumed. What are they felt to add?
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Post by bruce on Aug 3, 2019 21:20:21 GMT
4-REP = Restaurant Electro-Pneumatic braked.
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Aug 3, 2019 22:43:39 GMT
Don’t think it will cold in the first week of September to need heating on the train.
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class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
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Post by class411 on Aug 4, 2019 7:45:40 GMT
4-REP = Restaurant Electro-Pneumatic braked. Thanks so much for those. One I'd been wrong about, and one I'd wondered about ... for over 40 years. The life of a pedant is not always easy.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Aug 4, 2019 8:10:19 GMT
The life of a pedant is not always easy. For the rest of us it's not too great either......😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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Post by billbedford on Aug 4, 2019 9:27:40 GMT
By the way, can the electric heating in the TC set be powered by Sarah Siddons? (Class 20s never had train heating fitted). What heating was provided in Metropolitan Railway loco hauled trains in the steam/electric era (up to 1960) The later batches of Dreadnought coaches had electric lighting and heating from new, around 1918. Whether this system was compatible with that on the TC set, I don't know.
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Post by bruce on Aug 4, 2019 16:29:57 GMT
4-REP = Restaurant Electro-Pneumatic braked. Thanks so much for those. One I'd been wrong about, and one I'd wondered about ... for over 40 years. The life of a pedant is not always easy. If you are interested here is a link to the history of the 1966 Bournemouth stock www.bloodandcustard.com/bournemouth1966.html
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class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
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Post by class411 on Aug 4, 2019 17:16:07 GMT
Thanks very much. An interesting read if you have or had an interest in the EMU's {Electrical Multiple Units} operating south of London in the latter half or the 20 th century..
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Post by miff on Aug 5, 2019 13:43:29 GMT
Will Florence (the recently restored saloon) be making an appearance?
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Post by ted672 on Aug 5, 2019 14:18:48 GMT
I'm not sure "Relive the 1950s" is accurate, the train provided is hardly typical of the era!
<<rincew1nd: duplicate post deleted>>
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
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Post by roythebus on Aug 6, 2019 9:47:36 GMT
Train heating can work with most voltages from 650 up to 1000. The ETH power jumpers are UIC standard. I would presume either Sarah is fitted with them at the moment or the TC is fitted with the LT twin jumper. Maybe they don't bother with ETH anyway?
LT used a twin cable jumper as the running rails can't be used for the return current.
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Post by brigham on Aug 6, 2019 11:02:43 GMT
I'm not sure "Relive the 1950s" is accurate, the train provided is hardly typical of the era! <<rincew1nd: duplicate post deleted>> ALL 'old' railway rolling stock, and ALL periods 'in the past' are entirely interchangeable. Ask any film director or 'wartime weekend' organiser!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 6, 2019 11:07:23 GMT
I'm not sure "Relive the 1950s" is accurate, the train provided is hardly typical of the era! Hardly typical, although Sarah was in normal passenger use throughout that decade, and the vehicles that form the TC unit, as well as most of the Class 20s (although not this one) were built in the 1950s.
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Post by sem34090 on Aug 14, 2019 10:48:04 GMT
And there was me getting terribly excited - 1950s Metropolitan Stock? Have they decided to do with the Dreadnoughts what they have with the Cheshams?! Alas not... One can dream...
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Post by d7666 on Sept 2, 2019 16:14:11 GMT
My info has it this coming weekend the train(s) are formed 20 + SS + TC + 20.
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 2, 2019 18:45:39 GMT
its a shame that SS will not be at the front
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Post by brigham on Sept 3, 2019 7:36:05 GMT
its a shame that SS will not be at the front It's a shame that the train has turned into a BR Type 1 enthusiasts special.
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 3, 2019 21:59:03 GMT
its a shame that SS will not be at the front It's a shame that the train has turned into a BR Type 1 enthusiasts special. Well the Met did always see itself as a mainline railway - not a tube train service!
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Post by trainopd78 on Sept 6, 2019 17:39:50 GMT
Train formed and performed a test run in preperation for tomorrows run. Sarah north end - 4TC - 20142 south end
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Post by John Tuthill on Sept 7, 2019 16:11:02 GMT
It's a shame that the train has turned into a BR Type 1 enthusiasts special. Well the Met did always see itself as a mainline railway - not a tube train service! As John Betjaman said in his wondeful "Metroland" BBC documentary: "Manchester to Paris, stopping off at London on the way"
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Post by trainopd78 on Sept 7, 2019 16:35:42 GMT
its a shame that SS will not be at the front It's a shame that the train has turned into a BR Type 1 enthusiasts special. To be fair, this weekend was priced to attract families as much as it was for the enthusiasts. Plenty of families travelled with us today and I think a good time was had by all which is what it is all about :-)
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Post by njr001 on Sept 7, 2019 17:25:50 GMT
Sarah was leading solo northbound with a good turn of speed a great day out for all the family.
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Post by pgb on Sept 8, 2019 12:41:49 GMT
Are these 4TC coaches the ones that were used on the, I think it was, Bournemouth line, powered by a 4REP {Expansion Unknown} unit? Back when these were extant we had a few vaguely 'rail enthusiast' types in the office, and we believed thet: 4EPB -> Electro-Pneumatic Braked. And there was me thinking that EPB stood for "Every Passenger Bounces"
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