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Post by danwoodhouse on Jul 4, 2019 21:15:45 GMT
Why the hell are London Underground bringing out these new style indicators which are about half the size of the old ones and with a much smaller letters font
with the old long ones i could see from quite a distance what it said - not so with these new ones
and whos daft idea was it to have the new describer/indicator at Mile End mounted on a column? - so you have to walk around the platform trying to find it.
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 4, 2019 23:16:50 GMT
Primarily it comes down to cost. These newer narrow DMI’s are off the shelf variants that are found across the National Rail network and even on Tramlink.
I agree fully that the Metronet spec DMI’s that dominate the Central line are much better with sighting distances but they are heavy and much more costly to build and maintain. Some have in the course of recent water damage been disposed of all together and replaced with smaller off the shelf variants as seen on the Westbound at South Harrow. At least at Bank / Monument they have taken the liberty of providing two DMI’s which does go a little way to help but it’s not being done in nearly enough locations such as Harrow-on-the-Hill and Victoria (SSL).
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Post by Chris M on Jul 5, 2019 1:16:07 GMT
The column mounting at Mile End is due to the low ceiling I suspect.
The low ceiling is a product of a refurbishment though, which significantly reduced the available headroom. I presume there must have been a reason why this option was chosen but I've never worked out what it is/was.
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Post by stapler on Jul 5, 2019 7:08:47 GMT
What is the point of these indicators if they are illegible? The solution is however simple-- just have twice as many throughout.
Re Mile End; this is a particularly bad case, because so many passengers are interchanging cross platform and do not see the indicator on entering the station.The refurb did tidy up the station significantly, but the false ceiling was a retrograde step.
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Post by roman80 on Jul 5, 2019 9:08:00 GMT
Westminster SSR westbound is another. Surprising as its relatively new (JLE rebuild). The low ceiling, curved platform and perspex screen at platform edge hung from ceiling all conspire to make the one indicator useless unless one is standing close to it. Given its a major interchange and there are four options for a destination in different directions (Wimbledon, Ealing Broadway, Richmond and Circle), and in July and August tourists outnumber regulars, very annoying.
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Post by Chris L on Jul 5, 2019 9:43:50 GMT
What is the point of these indicators if they are illegible? The solution is however simple-- just have twice as many throughout. Re Mile End; this is a particularly bad case, because so many passengers are interchanging cross platform and do not see the indicator on entering the station.The refurb did tidy up the station significantly, but the false ceiling was a retrograde step. You can't just double up in most places as you will block the visibility of way out and interchange signage. There are much better white lettering versions appearing on some Southeastern stations (possibly funded by Thameslink). It would help if procurement people read the visibility requirements in government legislation before ordering "illegal" off the shelf units. |
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Post by superteacher on Jul 6, 2019 5:50:09 GMT
Maybe someone should report these “illegal” DMI’s to the powers that be? If they are illegal, surely TFL would be required to replace them?
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Post by tjw on Jul 6, 2019 10:10:22 GMT
Maybe someone should report these “illegal” DMI’s to the powers that be? If they are illegal, surely TFL would be required to replace them? Why would a company produce a DMI that was not compliant with the Legislation? Why would TFL buy such a thing? I would suggest that the DMIs comply with the letter of the law, whether that allows us to read them is another thing entirely. I am sure the legislation does not mention sun glare, backgrounds and all the many other factors that make such things unreadable. |
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Post by londonstuff on Jul 6, 2019 12:51:40 GMT
Maybe someone should report these “illegal” DMI’s to the powers that be? If they are illegal, surely TFL would be required to replace them? Why would a company produce a DMI that was not compliant with the Legislation? Why would TFL buy such a thing? I would suggest that the DMIs comply with the letter of the law, whether that allows us to read them is another thing entirely. I am sure the legislation does not mention sun glare, backgrounds and all the many other factors that make such things unreadable. There’s a thread around somewhere from quite a few years back where I complained about the massive DMIs at Victoria going to be replaced by the smaller ones. There’s absolutely no way I can read the off-the-shelf ones. I could understand if the rationale was to have one near every platform entrance so that people saw them on entering the platform. With the digital adverts, it wouldn’t even be beyond the wit of someone to integrate the next train info between the adverts. I totally agree that as they stand now, they’re effectively useless. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 6, 2019 16:35:58 GMT
Maybe someone should report these “illegal” DMI’s to the powers that be? If they are illegal, surely TFL would be required to replace them? Why would a company produce a DMI that was not compliant with the Legislation? Maybe they are legal for other uses? Countdown screens at bus stops for example, which are usually studied at close quarters. |
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Post by Chris L on Jul 6, 2019 17:25:21 GMT
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Post by jamesb on Jul 6, 2019 20:59:57 GMT
They are frustratingly small, surely there must be a bigger off the shelf varient - 'the next size up' type of thing.
Or projecting next train info onto the wall opposite the platform, combined with adverts - in that way, people would have to look at the adverts to see the next train info! True, people couldn't see the next train info when a train was in the platform, but they could at least see it before the train is in the platform, which is more than we can do at the moment !
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Post by Chris L on Jul 6, 2019 22:07:46 GMT
They are frustratingly small, surely there must be a bigger off the shelf varient - 'the next size up' type of thing. Or projecting next train info onto the wall opposite the platform, combined with adverts - in that way, people would have to look at the adverts to see the next train info! True, people couldn't see the next train info when a train was in the platform, but they could at least see it before the train is in the platform, which is more than we can do at the moment ! You need a tunnel wall to do that. Information and ads are never mixed. You could miss it during a string of ads. The Crossrail indicators in the tunnel section are above every set of doors. Much clearer too. |
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Post by moogal on Jul 8, 2019 13:18:47 GMT
Biggest problem with the Mile End ones on the eastbound platforms is that the busy end is the front of the train, and all the screens are towards the rear, so coming off a Central Line train to switch to the District/H&C you have no idea what's coming unless you walk halfway back down the platform. It does seem very odd that the ceiling is so low in there - what did it look like beforehand?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 8, 2019 14:16:07 GMT
Biggest problem with the Mile End ones on the eastbound platforms is that the busy end is the front of the train, and all the screens are towards the rear, so coming off a Central Line train to switch to the District/H&C you have no idea what's coming unless you walk halfway back down the platform. It does seem very odd that the ceiling is so low in there - what did it look like beforehand? ©LT Museum 1948:  the current false ceiling starts around the top of the tiled section on these pillars. Was certainly still like this in late 1970s. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 8, 2019 15:59:56 GMT
You can get an impression of how much height has been lost if you look across the SSR platforms. This photo from November 2010 wasn't taken with this purpose in mind so it's not the best quality, but it's illustrative.  (click for a larger version) |
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 24, 2019 21:53:02 GMT
You can get an impression of how much height has been lost if you look across the SSR platforms. This photo from November 2010 wasn't taken with this purpose in mind so it's not the best quality, but it's illustrative. (click for a larger version) Found an even older image showing just how lofty this station used to be.  My notes say this comes from the National Archives but I can’t find a link so please correct me if you know otherwise. |
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Post by Chris M on Oct 24, 2019 22:04:33 GMT
It looks like almost half the headroom has been lost - wow.
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Post by stapler on Oct 25, 2019 7:23:10 GMT
The false ceiling is late 80s-early 90s, I think. It was done to tart the place up (aka modernise). Mile End in the early 80s didn't appear lofty,just plain grotty.It was a worthy setting for the rats, scurrying about ignoring the bait traps (how did they avoid electrocution, diving under the 630v of the conductor rail nearest the walls?) and also for the pools of stale urine at the west end of the EB platform (OK, there were fewer trains late at night and many fewer people around than now).
It was a very dispiriting place to wait (with 10-min gaps) especially late at night, the atmosphere only a little redeemed by the rote describers: "if no through train is shown, change at Loughton for Epping...For Ongar, change at Epping"...
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 28, 2019 20:14:09 GMT
The indicator at South Kensington on the eastbound District used to be rubbish, presumably there was some fault with the apparatus such that trains would only be described as they approached the platform, the rest of the time it sat blankly.
The unit was replaced a couple of years ago, but the underlying fault was not corrected. Madness. So now the shiny new unit displays "District and Circle lines eastbound" for 95% of the time instead...
(The station staff used to put a trackernet or similar screen on a pc and have it in the window of their control booth, sadly this disappeared).
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Post by coyote on Oct 28, 2019 20:57:38 GMT
The 1980’s system at South Kensington eastbound could only indicate the arrival of trains from the trailing junction at Gloucester Road eastbound, which is just a couple of minutes away. It worked well for many years with its limitations, the new system will be better one day. Changing the style of platform indicator does not change the incoming data, only the number and size of the dots displaying it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 21:07:33 GMT
The indicator at South Kensington on the eastbound District used to be rubbish, presumably there was some fault with the apparatus such that trains would only be described as they approached the platform, the rest of the time it sat blankly. The unit was replaced a couple of years ago, but the underlying fault was not corrected. Madness. So now the shiny new unit displays "District and Circle lines eastbound" for 95% of the time instead... (The station staff used to put a trackernet or similar screen on a pc and have it in the window of their control booth, sadly this disappeared). It still runs off the legacy equipment which will only show the train once its in the platform at Gloucester Road. Eventually when 4LM comes along it should be better but I see a few times when you might see the word Correction appear. Especially if the area at Gloucester Road goes into a degraded control mode i.e Manual mode |
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