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Post by countryman on Feb 16, 2019 13:06:53 GMT
Some people we know are flying into Gatwick and need to get to Waterloo. They have asked about the use of a visitors' oyster card for the journey. I am usually ok on transport in London, but I can't figure out how Oyster works with Gatwick Express. On an ordinary Southern service i guess you just tap in and out, so how does the Oyster system know whether you have used Gatwick Express? Are there separate readers?
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Post by gals on Feb 16, 2019 13:13:06 GMT
Separate readers for the Gatwick Express Platforms at Victoria. Heathrow Express works in the same way. If the trains get diverted to a 'normal' platform then you pay the Southern fare.
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Post by countryman on Feb 16, 2019 13:25:16 GMT
Great, thanks for the quick reply!
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Post by commuter on Feb 16, 2019 14:28:26 GMT
There’s no need for them to pay more than double for Gatwick Express. The Southern branded trains are less than five min slower and at certain times actually quicker than the Gatwick express branded trains. Thameslink branded trains to London Bridge are the fastest trains from Gatwick to central London.
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Post by countryman on Feb 16, 2019 14:42:45 GMT
There’s no need for them to pay more than double for Gatwick Express. The Southern branded trains are less than five min slower and at certain times actually quicker than the Gatwick express branded trains. Thameslink branded trains to London Bridge are the fastest trains from Gatwick to central London. The people who are coming are staying in a Hotel in Waterloo. As such, the two route I suggested were Southern to Victoria, then 2 underground trains to Waterloo, or the possibly worrying change at Clapham. I was aware of the trains to London Bridge, and a change to Waterloo East, and I may yet have to suggest that route if Southern are on strike in April. The main issue I have is trying to knit the fog of ticket costs. Trainline are suggesting a Southern fare of £16.70 each way, which I know is too much, but I cannot tie down an Oyster fare (~11.30 on a Tuesday in April. I have given them an estimate of ~£10 per person! |
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 16, 2019 17:06:50 GMT
Maybe a train from Gatwick to Clapham Junction and then another to Waterloo?
Admittedly changing trains at CJ can be confusing (even if lifts now make accessibility with luggage easier), but travelling by train between Waterloo and Victoria is still one of London's transport black holes.
At certain times there is a direct bus, this would be cheaper and possibly easier. I cannot remember the route number, however.
Simon
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 16, 2019 17:52:34 GMT
Unfortunately finding the correct bus stop at Victoria is not the easiest. For simplicity I'd say take the train to London Bridge then the Jubilee line to Waterloo. It will partly depend where exactly the hotel is.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 16, 2019 19:34:50 GMT
the two route I suggested were Southern to Victoria, then 2 underground trains to Waterloo, or the possibly worrying change at Clapham. I was aware of the trains to London Bridge, and a change to Waterloo East, and I may yet have to suggest that route if Southern are on strike in April. Not sure why changing at Clapham Junction is any more worrying than using the Tube. At Clapham Junction, if you are arriving from Gatwick, the most convenient platform for Waterloo is Platform 10. For simplicity I'd say take the train to London Bridge then the Jubilee line to Waterloo.. You'll pay over the odds for that. Why muck about going down to the Tube? Any ticket (or Oyster fare) to London Bridge is also valid on South Eastern to Waterloo East (or any other South Eastern London terminal) - simply switch from platform 5 to platforms 8/9 at London Bridge. TfL's single fare finder shows an Oyster fare (off peak) of £8.30 to any London Terminal station (London Bridge, Victoria (not Gatwick Express), Waterloo, Waterloo East), or £15.10 before 09:30 If you use Gatwick Express to Victoria the Oyster fare is £19.80 at all times. That would not be a good plan, because they don't want to go to Victoria, and Victoria to Waterloo is awkward, and involves paying at least another £1.50 for a bus. At certain times there is a direct bus, this would be cheaper and possibly easier. I cannot remember the route number, however. Routes 211 or 507 to the main concourse at Waterloo, 148 if you want the area to the south of the station (Westminster Bridge Road).All three run seven days a week, and the 148 is a 24-hours-a-day service. Cheaper than the Tube, but not as cheap as taking the train to Waterloo (as there is no extra charge for changing at London Bridge or Clapham Junction for Waterloo - it all counts as "London Terminals") Unfortunately finding the correct bus stop at Victoria is not the easiest. . All three go from the bus station at Victoria, (stops B (507) or E (148, 211)) |
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Feb 16, 2019 22:52:32 GMT
The reason why Victoria to Waterloo is a black-hole is because the usual way to get to either instead of the other is to change at Clapham Junction. There's no point getting a Gatwick Express unless you actually need to get to Victoria, it just adds extra complexity, time and costs more money. Just change at Clapham Junction - far easier than using the Underground, as that would involve another change at Westminster!
Or Thameslink to London Bridge and change there for Waterloo East - again don't bother with the Underground, as by the time you've got to the Jubilee Line platform, you'll already be at Waterloo East
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Feb 16, 2019 22:56:36 GMT
Oh, and don't use Trainline. They charge commission. Use any Train Operating Company website instead.
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Post by countryman on Feb 17, 2019 9:23:38 GMT
Thank you all for your replies. At last I have the definitive fare! The people who are coming are from a small village in Austria, and are certainly not used to big cities. If I were doing this journey it would be no issue, and I would just do the trip by any means I felt like and pay with contactless. I don't have an Oyster card, and the visitors are asking how much to load on their cards. The reason I was trying to sort out the cheapest and easiest way to do this was because I know many people locally who have no idea how public transport works in London, and are terrified of using the Underground, and are particularly frightened of using buses.
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Post by kesmet on Feb 17, 2019 17:08:43 GMT
If they don't want to use the Underground and don't like buses (and neither do I - particularly with luggage!), then a single change at a straightforward station makes most sense. I would think - and this may be a controversial view! - that Clapham Junction is a actually the easiest interchange. If you make sure to go 'up' - stairs or lift - to the bridge, rather than 'down' to the under-track warren - then you have a long, simple corridor that connects all of the platforms. There's less traffic than the lower concourse area (fewer people interchange using the bridge and you're not having to contend with those coming in from outside the station either). Each staircase has a destination board (or two) next to it showing the next train from that platform. On the bridge (which is a lot wider than 'bridge' implies, and really quite airy) there are a number of destination screens in addition to the per-staircase displays. There's one between platforms 8 and 9 showing the fastest route to a number of destinations, which a special display for departures to 'London' - Victoria and Waterloo - showing the next few trains to each. This was really very straightforward to use - I checked it today - and should ease any concerns someone may have about changing trains there. Just remember that with Oyster you don't have to use a particular train at a particular time. Instead, passengers can just use whichever train is the most convenient. So there's no need to worry about hurrying to catch a train - take things reasonably leisurely, get to a platform with plenty of time and board the train without haste or hassle. Worth mentioning in case they're worried about having to plan for and get the exact specific train they've booked for - that's not how the London Transport system works. The single fare finder is very useful - it's at: tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finderI might think that the return journey is more difficult, but leaving plenty of time for the journey avoids any panic/worry about catching 'the right train'. |
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Post by zbang on Feb 17, 2019 20:44:49 GMT
Also consider that sometimes spending a few pounds to avoid a change (or two) or an extra stairway might be well spent. (I'd much rather change at CJ than at some of the tube stations, even with the lift maps they can still confuse.)
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 17, 2019 21:44:40 GMT
I would think - and this may be a controversial view! - that Clapham Junction is a actually the easiest interchange. If you make sure to go 'up' - stairs or lift - to the bridge, rather than 'down' to the under-track warren - then you have a long, simple corridor that connects all of the platforms. ......On the bridge (which is a lot wider than 'bridge' implies, and really quite airy) there are a number of destination screens in addition to the per-staircase displays. There's one between platforms 8 and 9 showing the fastest route to a number of destinations, which a special display for departures to 'London' - Victoria and Waterloo - showing the next few trains to each. This was really very straightforward to use - I checked it today - and should ease any concerns someone may have about changing trains there. I'd agree with that - Clapham Junction, use the lifts to the bridge cross from platform 12 to Platform 10. (there are also trains to Waterloo from platforms 3 and 4 (opposite sides of an island), but the ones from No 10 are so frequent it's not worth spending the extra time to get across there). Changing at London Bridge for Waterloo East is a possibility if there are no Southern trains to CJ, and just as easy (platforms 8/9 at London Bridge - again an island) but it's a long walk from the platform at Waterloo East to the exit. Also consider that sometimes spending a few pounds to avoid a change (or two) or an extra stairway might be well spent. (I'd much rather change at CJ than at some of the tube stations, even with the lift maps they can still confuse.) Changing at Clapham Junction (or London Bridge) is also the cheapest way |
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 18, 2019 23:53:13 GMT
Clapham Junction is more for people from south London plus other people who are "in the know".
Although an excellent interchange point from the point of view of destinations served, the interchange possibilities are not well advertised (if at all).
I was there a few weeks ago and noticed that the footbridge has a few retail outlets, including clothes and coffee shops, which help keep the place 'alive' (in terms of people about / not just rushing from train to train).
I thought it somewhat civilised, and was pleased that there is sufficient footfall to make this location profitable for the these traders.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 19, 2019 1:20:16 GMT
The last time I was at Clapham Junction I had to make my way from the LO platforms to the exit in the small shopping centre. It was about 4:30pm and "Civilised" is not the word I would use to describe the subway.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 19, 2019 8:01:42 GMT
Clapham Junction is more for people from south London plus other people who are "in the know". Is that surprising? Even though it does now appear on the Tube map, it still omits the most frequent services, with direct trains to Zone 1. Inevitably south Londoners will know it better, since it is in south London. But despite the three operators at the station each trying to pretend the others don't exist, it is much easier to navigate than many Tube interchanges, and the signage on the bridge in particular is reasonably clear. As others have said, if coming from Gatwick, you will arrive on platform 12, and for Waterloo you want platform 10. The last time I was at Clapham Junction I had to make my way from the LO platforms to the exit in the small shopping centre. It was about 4:30pm and "Civilised" is not the word I would use to describe the subway. No, the subway is awful. The bridge is much more spacious and, unlike the subway, also has step-free access (by lifts). The subway gets busier for several reasons: - it leads to/from the outside world - it is nearer the London-end of the trains, which is always the busiest end - because of the fan of sidings between platforms 6 and 7, the Windsor and LO platforms are a longer walk by bridge than by subway - it is much narrower I always prefer the bridge. |
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Post by A Challenge on Mar 14, 2019 15:36:21 GMT
I have only used the subway at Clapham Junction once (for entrance to go to Southern southbound), but from that would prefer the bridge. I would, however, for that journey, go via London Bridge into Waterloo East (which I have done for a train out of Waterloo not stopping at Clapham coming from East Croydon) , and I would think the London Bridge change is nicer than either, in its rebuilt state, especially if arriving on Thameslink not Southern. This will probably confuse matters, but you can also get a train from Platform 8 at Clapham Junction, although they aren't on the boards none are set down only (though some fasts out of London are pick up only).
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